Hourglass supplies ruining the gamemode

@ikobi-blade

Hi !

It’s my fault, I didn’t specified. My thread apply only (since I didn’t tryhard the other boars) to « High Elo » galleon in wich 2/3 games are against full team

Every hourglass fight should start with equal supplies. It was a bad decision by Rare to allow otherwise.

@wolfmanbush said in Hourglass supplies ruining the gamemode:

HG only supply barrel, it restocks with all supps to a base degree, can always tinker with amounts based on feedback

This barrel can only be accessed in HG fights
[ ... ]
Overall big qol improvement for hg imo and doesn't imbalance anything outside of hg

People can get the supplies from that barrel and put it in their supply crates or regular barrels or are all other barrels and crates not accessible during HG ?

the supply issue is kinda ruining the gamemode

How so?

punition to loose since it's litteraly impossible to go (on galleon) with just the outpost supplies.

That why we can...Buy supplies now.

you can't win a game against someone with more supplies than you (unless you're really better than them)

Clever tactics and good aim, you can win any game with limited supplies. It really isn't hard.

since the zone is too small

Funny, players want the zone to shrink to speed up the fight...

They can make your boat spin like a Beyblade and there's nothing you can do against it

Turn the wheel opposite direction....

you can't launch a game if you don't have much time since you MUST do supplies unless you wan't to farm loose

I can launch a game just fine, with the supplies I have and gather them as I play. There is no "Must"

That was what made Arena a good gamemode (I'm not asking for it's return I know it will never come back), you could come back from work, find a lobby and enjoy the game.

Same with adventure, you can start up and join random server and enjoy. It also not good to compare Hourglass to Arena.
Not healthy

@wolfmanbush said in Hourglass supplies ruining the gamemode:

HG only supply barrel, it restocks with all supps to a base degree, can always tinker with amounts based on feedback

This barrel can only be accessed in HG fights

Saves significant time
prevents as much sea fort wiping just for supps
gets people back into fights
takes a bit of heat off random ships because of the new barrel feature

Overall big qol improvement for hg imo and doesn't imbalance anything outside of hg

What would be cool is if you vote on HG and then a box appears and a person had a few choices of where to put it on the ship for their preference/convenience like a special storage crate that stays in the selected location. There could even be an athena box and a reaper box in design. Ghost n Bone

I like the idea of an HG box with supps in it, to an extent.

@burnbacon

Same thing I replied earlier, this apply only to galleon at « high elo » in wich you get good crew that you can’t sink with outpost suppy (shipwright in it).

I’m comparing it to arena since it’s the only thing we have in wich we have PVP only (you can’t compare it to adventure where there’s mostly swabies that doesn’t want to fight (unless you’re lucky but it’s what ? One out of ten servers))

A real Blunder spam used by a crew that know how it works (thanks to Stirling video) is impossible to parry. They can make you nose and go away as they fit and there’s nothing you can do about it unless you’re in a blunder’s dead zone.

The zone is too big. It’s a known issue since the start of the season (I’m repeating myself but this applies to high elo galleon). With the blunder as I said just before, it’s super easy to reset your fight and unless you and your team mates have 100% precision with your cannons at long range you’re stuck with the reset (It’s like when you encounter a runner in adventure, you can be the best helm in the world, if the enemy doesn’t want to fight you it can stall for a long time (in this mode that long time give them time to repair everything wich is draining supplies if they do this 2/3 times and trust me some crew do it all the time).

Salut Lamidou xd.

(long post)

Playing in High MMR Gally HG, I agree that around 250 cannonballs is rough when paired up against other high MMR teams off the bat [First dive] (Not crews at this point, but actual competitive teams) where they have over 2k cannonballs and 200+ blunders at their disposal after starting earlier in the day. At this point everyone prays to fight lower skilled opponents that have more then just default open crew supps to set them up against HG teams.

Sure Ive had some very lucky aggressive moments where I sunk good whale crews with default supps, but thats once in a blue moon.

1. I would like to see another nerf of blunders: Not necessarily in rarity, neither in effectiveness of what it does to spin a ship when used in moderation and intelligence, but my crutch is when high MMR gally ships, start spamming 10-30 blunders when losing the broadside fight and making the opponents do a 360 and reset, rinse & repeat. Over 200+ blunderbombs used in a single fight to peel off constantly is not very skillfull imho. Leads to braindead gameplay, which is a shame since blunderbombs should be used with knowledge and not endless spam to save your backside freely each time.

I would like if blunders had a nerf in either only being able to carry 3 instead of 5, WITH a combination of having increased loading times in the cannons. For specials in general as firebomb spam gets really annoying to a point its impossible to fire control during a mid broad fight when theres a dedicated cannoneer in only shooting pockets of specials over and over again.

2. The idea of people proposing here of having dedicated supps when diving sounds nice, kind of like arena where all ships were equal in playing field when it came to supps. Having 1k cannons with 10/10/10 specials, 50 poms, 50 coconuts, 250 wood would be cool to experiment for HG:
   This will create a meta for teams to commit to broads more often and not peel out if they want to win due to limited supps.
   (This is what essentially competitive SoT relies on) always nice to see teams that use 100+ blunders in HG crumble in comp SoT when you only have 6/6/6 specials only and not hundreds. Really exposes teams that have a fake façade of having constant specials win them in Hourglass xd.

Crates cannot be transferred when diving in the tunnel, however defending ships can use all the supps they want since there in the adventure world and not diving.

3. Regarding point 2.
   I still see gaps in having a limited sups for both crews. One crew can troll and waste time of their opponents knowing they have very low/no supps left leaving to stalemates/draws and potential toxicity/pipe-ups.
   The fog of war when it comes to not knowing how many supps your opponent has is in my opinion nice. And im leaning more on this to be kept this way rather then having dedicated supps when diving. Fog of war Supplies is imho important.

4. I think the BEST balance here is to acknowledge actual high leveled Gally crews exist in the first place. Buffing starting supplies in barrels + shipwright is the way to go, having 30+ cannonballs from a solo buying from the shipwright is kind of a joke for a galleon. 30 cannonballs gets eaten in 12 seconds in an opening broad of a fight. Where fights can last 15-30 minutes to close to an hour of intense non stop fighting.
   No one likes sailing for 20 minutes hitting another outpost + Fortress to supply up to a minimum of 500-600cannonballs, especially after a streak of sinks it's salt in the wound aka de-motivating.

5. I can see how lower MMR teams and smaller ships get away with base supps, as the room for error for sinking/ getting sunk is larger compared to a well oiled galleon crew that can take up to 500+ cannonballs to sink with a good bilge/flex tanking a full side of lower pressure. (Now compare that to the average gally crew that sinks with 3 tier 3 holes and neither the bilge/flex knows how to grate bucket.)

You have a huge discrepancy of players thinking base supps is enough versus high MMR galleon crews vs each other, that knows 100 cannonballs gets eaten for breakfast so to speak.

I really can't imagine why would it be so hard to implement separate supplies from adventure mode.

Once you hit HG, your supplies are locked out and HG supplies show up. If you sink, you loose them all, if you lower the hourglass you will loose the HG supplies. Those supplies can not be transferred into any other container.

The HG Supplies should be plentiful, but not completely dull either. So obviously all the utilities, chain shots etc would be included. Maybe few curse balls included 2 For Sloop, 3 for Brig, 4 For galleon?

So whatever that would be, everyone would be on same level when it comes to supplies.

@zig-zag-ltu a dit dans Hourglass supplies ruining the gamemode :

I really can't imagine why would it be so hard to implement separate supplies from adventure mode.

Once you hit HG, your supplies are locked out and HG supplies show up. If you sink, you loose them all, if you lower the hourglass you will loose the HG supplies. Those supplies can not be transferred into any other container.

I don't think whether it's hard or not is what is keeping them from doing anything.

I really believe this is by design. They DID choose to put this new PvP mode IN adventure mode, implying all kind of stuff, the most obvious of which is : RNG and the lack of fairness. It's actually a pretty solid design pillar if you ask me. In theory that ensures replayability, another kind of "fairness" (bad players could win, it's not very "competitive" since the conditions are not the same each time..), and allows FUN stuff to happen. (why did they put the most hardcore, elitist, player-unfriendly, not-fun, grindy XP system on top of it is beyond me cos' it ruins everything, but that's another topic)

But adventure mode also have tradeoffs : yes, you can go into the fight with 0 planks and only a fireball if feel like it. At the same time you can decide to only PvP when you have 2k of everything and you have laid a keg field all around the Shores of Plenty. That's valid too.

Imo the design is cool.

Now what can we tweak ? Tankness of ships maybe ? Rewards ? (I know I know but I'm sure you can actually drive players' behaviours with good incentives, or, and it's happening, disgust them and make them do the worst things to your game).

• I for starters would get rid of the jettisoned supplies. That was a bad move and ended up only being a good change for people that do streaks ( = top-tier winners), which was not the GOAL at all. Ended up in new players being sunk for wood.
• I'd revert the change made to wraith-cannonballs spawn, even increase it by making them spawn with every OoS fleet voyage, not just the BB. Fights end quickly with those. And this is adventure. Who decided I couldn't go farm some of these before my fights ? Lemme guess..... PvP crybabies who always talk about fairness when they animation-cancel double-tap noobs... This goes against the design I was talking above.
• I would go back and spawn kegs all around the battlefield in floating barrels as it was at the beginning. It's WAR ! It's adventure ! It's RNG ! Embrace the design you chose, don't try to fight it
• I would hard-code more random skelly ships, megs and krakens encounters WHILE in HG battles
• I'd spawn players in the middle of the storm more

This is Sea of Thieves. People that absolutely want a fair fight, maybe play chess or something ? It's never gonna be fair in adenture mode. Can it in any video game either ? Unless we all have the hardware e-sport players have and the game is FREE of bugs/random freezes....

Because when people ask :

• fair conditions (no interfering 3rd party player ship, no skelly, no ffog, whatever...)
• fair supplies
• fair this and fair that (in short, just make it so the 2 parties involved have EXACTLY to same resources and win conditions and all...)
  Really they just ask for a separate 1-ship Vs 1-ship game mode. It's OK, but in this case let just go all the way : they want an area filled with waters, maybe no islands, and equal everything. Just get rid of the map you know ? Remove islands, rocks, kegs and everything. Only player's expression is his cosmetic and his skill/tactics.
  That could work for some. Wouldn't be much fun though

@jolly-ol-yep

Although I think the core design is pretty cool what this effectively means for high MMR galleons is a 25-30min downtime between losses. This downtime is going hurt the longevity of the mode imo.

@ajm123 Go up against good gally crews and tell me how your 200-300 cannonballs end up if you manage to not sink first vs a team with 1k+

I wish with every post people put we could see MMR, main ship type, and console since yes I fully agree (unlike a lot of comments that are meming you) on high mmr gally on PC supply difference is so incredibly stupid.

I genuinely wonder if anyone at Rare even plays high MMR pc galleon and it also seems like none of their twitch partners do either for the most part can't remember I have seen a big streamer ever play PC galleon.

In short yeah either you need to spend 2 hours getting supplies or yolo and pray since at this point most of high MMR gally is former NAL teams hitting longshots from max range then blunder spinning you and potentially cursing you if you are holding out for to long and if you don't have the supplies to take max range gally shots you practically lost right there.

I have seen a lot of people responding to your comments proposing in the past to just ram the enemy ship... which just shows they have never played high MMR gally in their life.

@ikobi-blade 5k is a lot to sink into a pvp match

Don't do galleys, you have a point but with every other ship type you absolutely can win fights with low amount or comparably less supplies. On brig I am always shocked by the amount of supplies I get from some ships when sinking them.
They can't change the supplies just for one ship type, I thought your title actually referred to the general abundance of supplies everyone has since the changes to make hg mode easier have gone in