On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community

  • Hi. I made a support request recently voicing some concerns I had about the upcoming implementation of Easy Anti-Cheat (EAC) and was recommended to make a forum post in this channel. I am not the most vocal of people when it comes to being part of the community but I feel as though it would be against my principles if I didn't at least try to reach out. Allow me to preface this by saying I don't cheat, nor do I condone cheating; I feel as though the foundation of this community is based on good-faith engagement in the world that we share. I started playing in 2020 and have accumulated nearly 2000 hours across all aspects of the game; I love this game and am saddened with the decision that Rare has made to implement mandatory kernel-level anti-cheat. The purpose of this post is try and bring awareness to the community and to Rare that this is the wrong decision not just for the game but for the overall PC-gaming community as a whole. I hope that at the very least, I can convey enough that would inspire you as a reader to perform your own research and make a more informed decision when it comes to whether or not you are personally OK with this decision. I will also include some links at the end that you could use for educational purposes.

    There are better resources out there on the Internet than the forum post of some nobody on the role of the kernel in modern day operating systems, but a rather simplistic perspective is that it is the most protected part of your system. Access to the kernel is highly restricted and for good reason, it has complete control over your computer. This is the reason that the kernel has become the target for anti-cheat developers - bear in mind that this is not out of malice on their part - having their software run at this level of authority allows complete surveillance of your system's memory processes. This can be leveraged to identify if anomalies are present in the memory space for the game and figure out if your application has been modified to enable cheats. From a consumer's perspective this presents a severe and ever present vulnerability. It would be paranoid to suspect that anti-cheat developers themselves are intent on hijacking the systems of their clients, but this vulnerability can be exploited by malicious actors that stand to gain an ever increasing payday. With how ubiquitous these kernel-level anti-cheat solutions have become in modern day, the number of people that compose the vulnerable population is massive (10s-100s of millions of people) and a malicious actor stands to gain more the larger this population - this constitutes incentive to attack the implementation. I'm not suggesting by any means that someone you sank in hourglass is going to try and hack you because of some grudge they carry, I'm saying that someone who compromises the proprietary software employed by the developers of programs like EAC will have the means to exploit everyone that has the software - these are the prime conditions that enable a successful massive scale cyberattack. As PC gamers, we have seen time and time again that these kernel-level anti-cheats keep reappearing as a 'solution' to a 'security' problem (cheaters); there is no one in the supply chain of these products that truly has your security in consideration - it's just you. I have complete confidence that Rare is not making this decision in order to compromise their player base, but it's a consideration that they need to account for. We as a gaming community should not be OK with companies employing any software at the kernel level because accountability with regards to data breach will always be on us. We are the ones that stand to lose the most in this transaction. This was a reality with the anti-cheat solution employed in Genshin Impact - bad actors utilized this to exploit victims in order to kill their antivirus processes and employ ransomware en masse (video linked below). In the following section I will give a few points as to why the solution that is being employed by Rare is not appropriate for the Sea of Thieves community.

    Competition: Sea of Thieves is not a competitive game; aside from tournaments that are established by segments of the community (which are fantastic and reveal a component of the game that the community in whole should be proud to host) the vast majority of the community is not whole-heartedly dedicated to refining the technical skills required to play at the upper echelon of performance. This isn't to say that people don't try to get better at the game nor that there isn't satisfaction in sinking your opponent at the end of a long winded hourglass match, its just that there really isn't anything to lose. Losing in this game sucks, yes, losing to cheaters sucks even more, but you'll get a new server, a new opponent, a new bit of loot to argue over, its not the end of the world, you don't lose any significant matchmaking rating, and there isn't some leaderboard on who is the most successful pirate in the game. Every incredible feat of PvP prowess can be attained by anyone dedicated enough to the game. This still isn't representative of the community as a whole though, most of the people playing the game will boot it up, vote up a quest, sail to the island, finish the quest, sell the loot, and log off. Would their day be really much different if they were attacked by cheaters or someone who just finished their streak in hourglass? People will play the game for the components that they want to play, with or without cheaters, the game will play the same at the end of the day. The lack of a true competitive scene and active support for it from Rare weakens the argument that such drastic implementation measures are necessary for the game, especially when community events are so well curated to a selection of the player-base - if they cheat, don't let them into your tournament.

    Point of Sale to Now: I bought the game in 2020 and have nearly 2000 hours in it. There are many players that have significantly more time in the game than I do. When I purchased the game, there was no kernel-level anti-cheat, it wasn't even a thought to me that such an issue could have been realized. I am going to uninstall the game, I don't want that software on my system, I don't want to be victimized, I don't want to be part of the vulnerable population. I'm sure there are players more dedicated than myself that will likely be having the same cognitive dissonance that I'm struggling with and I ask, why? It feels unfair. I love this game, I love this community, I love the random encounters with wacky people on the seas, I love the developers that pour their heart and soul into the game that has evolved so much over the time that I've played it, but it doesn't matter, because I have to stand by my principles. I won't be reinstalling the game until I find a means through which my mind can be at ease while I play. Rare, this is for you, please don't take this game away from me and the other potentially more silent minority of players that care passionately about your game but can't accept these measures as our new reality.

    Community Outcry and The Player Base: People in the community have been crying out about cheaters in this game for as long as I can remember. Any legitimate player that has an appreciable amount of time in the game has likely been accused of hacking. I think that the impact of cheaters on this game has been vastly overstated. I think that it has been sensationalized because its harder to accept defeat from a legitimately skilled player than it is to claim that your opponent bested you through unfair means. YouTube videos titled 'We Sunk Cheaters' or 'Keg Hacking Player Tries to Sink us' attract a lot more attention than a YouTube video of a relatively new crew trying to control their boat while fighting another boat that doesn't realize they can raise their sails. The reality is that most encounters in the game have no one with an unfair advantage, most of the players that best other people have more experience with shooting their weapons, aiming their cannons, and repairing their boat. It is rather subjective, but in my collection of hours I've only encountered 2 cheaters, I've participated thoroughly in all aspects of the game: with countless hours in adventure, I have also grinded out Legendary/Triumphant Sea Dog in Arena, and have reached over 300 allegiance (I know its not as high as a lot of players, but I'm still dedicated to the game-mode and actively trying to improve). Both of my encounters with cheaters were in adventure mode. I think we can all agree that a significant majority of the player base isn't cheating, but its been represented and sensationalized in that way. I'm sure that Rare has more insight into the matter, but I feel as though exposing the large population of good, honest players to these countermeasures in order to target the small group of individuals that are intent on disrupting the community is rather extreme. I'd liken it to exposing an entire population to doses of radiation in the hopes that the few in the population with cancerous tumours will be cured. Although the risk to the individual is small, its unnecessary considering that the effectiveness itself may be questionable. Why should the majority of the honest playerbase be added to the vulnerable population because of a small collection of malicious actors? It just doesn't make sense and further establishes the dangerous precedent that has evolved since the conceptualization of kernel-level anti-cheats. This is the main problem that Rare needs to consider - Do they have a duty to keep their players safe? Are they responsible for the ramifications if a cyberattack is realized through this platform? Is this the institution that they want to support? I think that a hard stance against cheating is appropriate, but I think that Rare needs to find their own solution to the problem - they could still take a stance against cheating and ensure that the gaming community is aware that they care about the end-user's security above all else. I think that delivering a product that has the end-user in mind is far more important than getting rid of the cheaters that the EAC implementation will actually catch. This brings me to my next section.

    Does it Work: Of course we won't know until its implemented, but I suspect that people will still be complaining about cheaters. Does this mean that the cheaters haven't been banned? While there will be some that slip through the cracks, I suspect the majority of issues are spawned from perspective, not from reality. EAC has been employed in a collection of different games and has demonstrated that it can weed out cheaters that utilize distribution based software. Anyone that is competent enough to generate their own cheats will just have another hoop to jump through before they can ruin someone's hourglass streak or hurl obscenities at a streamer. Kernel-level anti-cheats work to target these distributions of cheats but can be overwritten by cheats employing kernel-level drivers. This evolutionary arms race between cheaters and preventative measures is just going to lead to more sophisticated cheats and more intrusive anti-cheats - the common factor is that the only person truly being punished is you, the legitimate player that is trying to enjoy their favourite game. I think that a different approach is required from Rare (and all developers for that matter), one that could weed out cheaters and avoid compromising their genuine player base - if Rare could more adequately define the behaviours expected from genuine players and weed out the exploits and bugs that deviate from this behaviour, they could employ an anti-cheat solution at the server level rather than on individual users. Rare you've already had success with this approach before, the instarepair cheat comes to mind, implementing time between repairs and proximity to the shipwright as mandatory elements of the game practically stopped that cheat in its tracks. I urge you to consider making your game more robust to resisting cheats rather than issuing compromise onto your legitimate player base. I will include a list of games that employ kernel-level anti-cheats in a link below, anyone that is part of these communities could likely shed more light on the effectiveness of these anti-cheat solutions in a given game, but at the end of the day, no matter what measures Rare takes, we'll still have cheaters in our game.

    I don't want to lose this game, I don't want to lose the part of me that it has cultivated over the last 4 years of my playtime, but I can't in good conscience continue to play with knowledge of the ramifications of the approach that is being adopted to combat cheaters. Rare I petition you to reconsider the course that you are steering this game, a game that has been about pursuing the freedom of the Pirate's Life independent of personal history and the complexity of the world that we live in. To say that this game is special is an injustice, it is truly unique and has cultivated a diverse player base that unites in their ability to pursue their goals with not but the skill and cunning they've developed over the course of their adventure. I want the game to be healthy, free of cheaters, and available to everyone so that they can experience it as I have, which is I why I'm making this post. Please, find another way to solve this issue - stand up against the standard that is being pushed on the gaming community that disregards the security of your player base. Take the high road so that you can establish the trail for other developers to follow in the future. For any other players that bothered to read this wall of text, I urge you to seek out your own research and educate yourself on the matter as best you can, engage in good-faith, and have your voice heard - if you agree or disagree with my perspective, say something, because its the only way that anything changes. No solution is perfect, but there are other solutions to this problem that wouldn't put the onus of vulnerability on the player base. Thank you for reading my post and I hope that it isn't lost to the red sea. I know I'm only one voice, a drop of water in a Sea of Thieves, but I love this game and don't want to lose it over this.

    Links for anyone seeking more information - I'm sure you could find more online about this issue throughout the history of other developments:
    The only other forum post I could find on this matter
    A list of games with kernel level anti-cheat software
    This video discusses the kernel and the vulnerability of anti-cheats - has to do with Riot Games/Vanguard anti-cheat
    Also has to do with Vanguard and Valorant - potential language warning
    Genshin Impact kernel level exploitation - advertisement warning
    Reddit post by kernel dev discussing EA's anticheat solution
    Article discussing Doom Eternal and the controversial anti-cheat that was going to be implemented

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  • I agree with this post. IDK why people don't upvote posts here. With Microsoft's history of user data vulnerabilities/leaks, I'm really dissapointed that the "industry standard" has come to this.

    IMO kernel-level anticheats can, and will be, hacked... [mod edit]

  • @melone-dog Thank you for your perspective. The computer gaming industry as a whole was always touted as the most accessible because it allowed complete control over the hardware/software that was incorporated in a user's system. It's the responsibility of the user to assert their place in the industry and define what is and isn't acceptable standards - that's exactly why I made this post. I'm glad to see that this perspective isn't entirely outlandish and I hope more people come forward to voice themselves.

  • The social side of the sot community is like the louder side of any gaming community.

    Valid frustrations turn into unreasonable demands and expectations that don't even really make a whole lot of sense, then they get some of what they ask for and realize it changes very little for the better in the end.

    People just wanted to vent and they did it through posting "anti-cheat when?" on everything.

    Think about this, as many of the same people in the community cheat and exploit more than ever before on the PVE side of things they demand more than ever to address it. Makes no dang sense how some have been acting. Justifying full on cheating and exploiting for greed while demanding that Rare does something about cheating and exploiting. It's just wild.

    Anti-cheat was always just a thing people said, very few ever had much more to say than that, something to jab Rare with, now it's here.

    This is likely gonna happen. Hopefully everything goes well, too late to go back now.

  • @wolfmanbush I have no doubt that come tomorrow Rare will implement their EAC solution. I also have no doubt that the outcome will still not meet the expectations of the 'loud' side of the community. What I hope for is that Rare sees that this solution is not appropriate and makes changes accordingly. It's happened before that a game implemented and retracted their kernel-level anti-cheat implementation due to backlash from the gaming community (see the link above about Doom Eternal). I'm just crossing my fingers that it happens for my game as well.

  • @alienlazer said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    @wolfmanbush I have no doubt that come tomorrow Rare will implement their EAC solution. I also have no doubt that the outcome will still not meet the expectations of the 'loud' side of the community. What I hope for is that Rare sees that this solution is not appropriate and makes changes accordingly. It's happened before that a game implemented and retracted their kernel-level anti-cheat implementation due to backlash from the gaming community (see the link above about Doom Eternal). I'm just crossing my fingers that it happens for my game as well.

    This specific community has a different kind of vibe as far as the loudest go. A lot of people with loud voices here say some pretty wild things as far as how invasive they want Rare to be about the game, monitoring, cheating enforcement etc.

    I think there are quite a few people that know what they are talking about but they don't really have the reach.

    My personal view is that because the game is so tied in and close with social media now a lot of the more extreme views rise to the top. Even if people are "just throwing ideas around" there are some pretty extreme views that go around about how much monitoring people want, enforcement, etc.

  • @wolfmanbush I completely agree with your perspective and I feel as though that observation is true about a lot of public discourse nowadays. I do however think think that well reasoned, rational voices can cut through the bloated discourse and reach the people that need to hear them. The only thing required is for people to speak up.

  • I don’t disagree with the premise of your post, which is that kernel level access brings heightened vulnerability to exploitation by malicious actors. The reason I don’t disagree with that part of your post isn’t because I have any knowledge of kernel level access, but rather because this isn’t the first time I’ve heard the warnings, and I have no reason to doubt them. With that said, I am not in the least bit concerned about that vulnerability for the simple reason that my computer is for games, and games only, there is nothing happening on my soon to be vulnerable computer that can be used against me. I also don’t link my payment info in steam. I end up changing my ccard number often anyway due to fraudulent actions and lost cards. I also recognize that not everyone will be able to separate their gaming computer from things like banking or other personal activities. So my lack of concern doesn’t necessarily translate to everyone else. Also, most people play this game on Xbox, and soon to be ps5, PC players are a minority.

    What I don’t agree with in your post is your undermining the seriousness of cheating in SoT. SoT is easily, EASILY the worst when it comes to cheating out of any online (or offline) game I’ve ever played. I’ve said that before on these forums and I’ve gotten copium responses trying to downplay the reality because “reasons”. I came onto these forums several months ago for the sole purpose of trying to learn what, if anything, is being done about the cheating. To my dismay I saw multiple regulars at the time (some still persist) downplaying the cheating problem because “they aren’t seeing it to the extent others are”, or “cheating accusations are overblown”, or (insert further attempts at copium). A little disclaimer: I’m a gamer, long time gamer, I always put a heavy emphasis on PvP and sometimes it’s the only thing I do in games that offer more than just PvP. I’m well aware of haxusations and the prevalence of them in any game with PvP. I’ve played with competitive groups in multiple online games, taking my skills as far as they can, and keeping up with all of the latest trends & metas… while being hyper aware of any cheats which could hinder my enjoyment. I’ve seen a lot of garbage haxusations on these forums coming from people who clearly don’t know what they’re talking about, I’m not denying in any way that false accusations take place, I’ve been accused myself.

    I feel the need to give the above disclaimer any time I talk about cheating on these forums because of the anticipated copium.

    Aim/cannon bot is subjective. Yes, good players can often seem as if they’re cheating to the untrained eye, that can be a difficult thing to prove even with video, but if you fight players non-stop, especially in hourglass, it is NOT difficult to recognize that something’s off. Also, keep in mind that these cheats can sometimes shoot around corners and through walls. But that’s just aimbot, how about the flying, teleporting, insta laddering, keg spawning (haven’t seen this in season 11), shipwright repairing while at sea (haven’t seen this in season 11, also could just be an exploit not a cheat), and so on, and so on. And these are just the obvious ones; how about ship diagnostics showing how many holes are in the ship, how about seeing all players names on the map as if they were in your crew, how about the countless cheats & exploits involving PvE?

    You can also go on YouTube and find guides to using and installing these cheats, you can also go to cheat websites and see the cheaters discussing the use of their cheats and how well they work. I’ve turned in videos of cheaters and got email verification that “some of the players I’ve reported have been banned for cheating”. The. Cheats. Are. Out. There. In. Abundance. I don’t care if someone isn’t experiencing them because reasons, that doesn’t change the reality. They also are not limited to HG as some like to profess. Season 9 was atrocious, anyone who played season 9 and didn’t experience a fair amount of cheating must have been living under an island, or perhaps there just weren’t any cheats available via Xbox, I don’t know…

    TLDR; I’ve been seeing the “cheats aren’t as big of a problem as many think” responses and post on these forums since I started looking, and they were extremely discouraging to me as cheating has been my only gripe with SoT since I’ve started. Yes cheats are a problem, a huge one, and nothing has caused me to end my session in this game out of frustration other than cheats, many times… I praise the kernel and wish him/her well on my gaming machine. If anyone has security concerns relating to the kernel and your device, take steps to sanitize it the best you can. I for one am not concerned about someone getting my gaming passwords or whatever.

  • @alienlazer said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    @wolfmanbush I completely agree with your perspective and I feel as though that observation is true about a lot of public discourse nowadays. I do however think think that well reasoned, rational voices can cut through the bloated discourse and reach the people that need to hear them. The only thing required is for people to speak up.

    You'll have to get the pirate that ended up randomly in all of our youtube shorts to start playing SoT and save the day on this lol.

  • @capt-greldik Thank you for providing your perspective and giving your opinion on the matter, I really do appreciate it.

    I'm not in any means attempting to belittle your experience on the seas and from reading your post I can tell that cheating has influenced your experience very negatively. I 100% am with you on this. Although in my post I stated that I believe the cheating situation is sensationalized, I know that there are dedicated players who love the game that have a far more severe set of interactions with the cheating problem. I've seen my fair share of YouTube content demonstrating the cheating problem so I'm with you on that too. My personal experience (100% subjective) is that I haven't encountered many cheaters - this isn't to belittle your experience, it's just for being forthcoming with my experience. I want rare to fix the cheating problem, it is indeed a big problem with the game, but I don't think that employing a kernel-level anti-cheat is the appropriate vehicle to accomplish that task. It comes with a precedent that is dangerous for the gaming community and compromises more good people than cheaters.

    I think that the fact that you have a separate gaming computer is fantastic and a great step towards personal security and I have been considering how I could employ such an implementation without the overhead of purchasing new components - this is the only way that I think I would be comfortable coming back on the game with this anti-cheat issue.

    Thank you for sharing your perspective and I'm sorry that you've had a negative experience with the game and had presumably unreasonable responses on the forum. There are cheaters and they need to be stopped to keep the game healthy but I'm asking for Rare to pursue a less invasive solution.

  • @moonlilly8494 I'm sorry to hear about your purchase - maybe you could get a refund as it seems like a reasonable claim (at least to me). I don't want anyone to quit over this, I don't want to quit over this, but until I find a more reasonable solution to play the game and be confident in my security I have to uninstall. I hope Rare takes notice and takes action because I feel like a lot of good people will be reluctant to download the update tomorrow.

  • @alienlazer

    To be fair, after reading your post I’m now online looking into whether icue and/or razer apps might trigger an anti-cheat. Based on what I’ve seen online it’s not happening with EAC, and those who did have issues with icue were using some super old version with increased vulnerabilities or something.

    If I have issues with icue or razer admittedly I would be very annoyed, so hopefully we can avoid that…

  • @capt-greldik I have confidence that Rare will work out the kinks to their implementation, although it may take some time, and I hope that your experience with the game will be more enjoyable with the anti-cheat employed. I have my doubts about how effective it will be at quashing all of the cheaters but time will tell.

  • @alienlazer said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    @capt-greldik I have confidence that Rare will work out the kinks to their implementation, although it may take some time, and I hope that your experience with the game will be more enjoyable with the anti-cheat employed. I have my doubts about how effective it will be at quashing all of the cheaters but time will tell.

    I have no doubt that cheats will continue to exist, and that there will be a constant eb & flow, but if the anticheat mitigates the cheating at all, it’s a win.

  • Id like to follow up with a recommendation to anyone - separate your gaming from your work/irl machine. We wouldn’t do our banking on an Xbox or playstation, right? I see gaming on a PC the same way. I’m not very computer tech savvy but I have been using them since the early 90’s before web browsers existed and computers were navigated via DOS (Microsoft computers, at least). I’ve seen and heard about many hacks over the years and eventually I decided to keep it all separate, at least once I got to the point in life where online banking became a thing. Not everyone will have the luxury of doing this, but you could still sanitize your PC to some extent.

    The old saying goes: don’t put all of your eggs in one basket.

  • @alienlazer said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    @capt-greldik I have confidence that Rare will work out the kinks to their implementation

    I think this is something everyone should keep in mind as well.

    There will be mistakes and everyone has their views on this but they are doing this in an attempt to serve the community.

    If anyone runs into issues and knows they aren't cheating just contact support and be polite and patient. It'll get worked out.

    Never start out at a 10 of frustration as that'll just lead to more issues. Always start at the support level and go through that process first before any sort of escalation. Far more effective and won't create any new issues along the way.

  • I don't have a background in software/game development, or anything comp sci-related. I'm prefacing my comment with that, just to point out my own ignorance on the subject.

    In the past, I have played Apex, Hunt, 7 days to die, DBZ Xenoverse 2, and I'm actively playing Diablo 4 and just recently hopped back on Elden Ring.

    So, if EAC is vulnerable, my pc is already screwed. I have BitDefender, and I stay away from shady sites, so (knock on wood), I've never been a victim of ransomware or anything related.

    What type of anti-cheat did Genshin use? And has EAC ever been hacked and used for ransomware?

  • @capt-greldik This is very good advice, but not everyone has the luxury of performing this separation between systems. Many people use the same system for everything, so developers requesting kernel level access is more of a severe affront to security.

  • @theblackbellamy I'm not aware of any exploits that have been discovered or used against some of the bigger name anti-cheats. Your PC is not screwed, its just that if an exploit were discovered you would be vulnerable to it. The issue with kernel-level anti-cheat is that it provides an avenue for attackers to bypass your computers built in defence mechanisms and hackers can do whatever they want once they get in there.
    These anti-cheats have just built a metaphorical door for hackers to try and break into; this door is as secure as the development team behind the software make it. It's unlikely that some hacker in a basement is going to target your door specifically, but because of how prevalent these doors now are around the community, there is a lot more incentive because they can break into everyone's house that has that door if they can break into one of them.
    Genshin used mhyprot2. sys as their kernel-level driver which is proprietary to the publishing company and was compromised when the valid driver signature was used to disseminate ransomware. It's likely that you've never had this on your system if you haven't played any of their games.
    If I were to personally advise you, and take it as much as you would from anyone on the Internet, I would avoid games that employ kernel-level anti-cheat, especially if you have valuable personal information on your system. Your information is not leaked but it is vulnerable if an exploit is discovered.

  • TL;DR
    Need a summary for those of us who like people to get to the point.

  • @burnbacon Kernel-Level Anti-Cheat solutions pose a persistent security vulnerability that disproportionately affects good, honest players over cheaters and perpetuates a standard that has developed over the recent evolution of the gaming industry.

    I go into a number of reasons why I think this is an inappropriate solution given the logistics of Sea of Thieves itself (not truly competitive, not implemented at point of purchase, not truly necessary measures, and likely won't achieve the desired effect).

    It's a blog post petitioning people to inform themselves on the issue and formulate their own opinions.

  • I have been very vocal in the past on my thoughts about anything running kernel-level on a PC and the vulnerabilities it poses. EAC is at least ubiquitous enough and has Epic's Fortnite money behind it.

    Rare have already tried server side anti-cheat (the machine learning anti-cheat that comes with Azure Playfab and analyses player behaviour) and it clearly wasn't enough on its own.

    Players have been up in arms asking for client side anti-cheat for years and it's clear the issue exploded with Season 8 and Hourglass. I don't disagree that it has been blown out of proportion though.

    But, here we are, on the eve of Rare adding anti-cheat and all we can do really is hope for the best - minimal disruption to the vast majority of legit players in the community whilst stopping most of the cheat users.

    At least it's not Vanguard. While it will have kernel-level access, that's only while the game is running. And I'm sure the choice of anti-cheat is also to keep their SteamDeck verified status, though we'll see how that plays out.

    To be clear, I am not estatic about the situation at all, but it is what it is and I don't see them reversing course on this.

  • @realstyli Thank you for your input. When it comes to comparing kernel-level anti-cheats (like Vanguard/EAC/nProtect/etc.) I feel as though we as consumers shouldn't be making the proverbial Deal with the Devil with the "at least it doesn't do x" statements. I think a firm stance from the gaming community is what's needed so that developers can dedicate more effort to finding a solution that doesn't compromise the end-user. What it boils down to is that most people don't understand this stuff so it's dressed up and brought to the market as an appealing solution.

  • @capt-greldik said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    Id like to follow up with a recommendation to anyone - separate your gaming from your work/irl machine. We wouldn’t do our banking on an Xbox or playstation, right? I see gaming on a PC the same way. I’m not very computer tech savvy but I have been using them since the early 90’s before web browsers existed and computers were navigated via DOS (Microsoft computers, at least). I’ve seen and heard about many hacks over the years and eventually I decided to keep it all separate, at least once I got to the point in life where online banking became a thing. Not everyone will have the luxury of doing this, but you could still sanitize your PC to some extent.

    The old saying goes: don’t put all of your eggs in one basket.

    Why do I need to buy an other pc for non gaming things?? That is just stupid and the other way around.. A pc is not even comparable to an xbox

  • @moonlilly8494 said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    @capt-greldik said in On Easy Anti-Cheat - A Petition To The Community:

    Id like to follow up with a recommendation to anyone - separate your gaming from your work/irl machine. We wouldn’t do our banking on an Xbox or playstation, right? I see gaming on a PC the same way. I’m not very computer tech savvy but I have been using them since the early 90’s before web browsers existed and computers were navigated via DOS (Microsoft computers, at least). I’ve seen and heard about many hacks over the years and eventually I decided to keep it all separate, at least once I got to the point in life where online banking became a thing. Not everyone will have the luxury of doing this, but you could still sanitize your PC to some extent.

    The old saying goes: don’t put all of your eggs in one basket.

    Why do I need to buy an other pc for non gaming things?? That is just stupid and the other way around.. A pc is not even comparable to an xbox

    You don’t need to do anything. It was just a recommendation. It’s what I do because I like to keep my banking separate from YouTube and pirates, you do you.

  • Giggles in "Console Peasant"

    I know just enough about kernels to know I'm glad I'm a console kiddie.

  • I will be uninstalling it from my computer tonight. I have split my time between my console and my computer for years, with an ebb and flow of which I use more at any given time. I will now be sticking only to my Xbox for the foreseeable future. My computer is not a gaming computer, so SoT was just a convenience install. I don’t play other games on it, so SoT would be bringing a new level to my experience that I’m not comfortable with. Luckily I have a console and enjoy using my console, so it isn’t a hard choice for me.

  • @pithyrumble Seems that the console folks backed the right horse on this one.

  • @abjectarity I'm glad to hear you can keep on playing, definitely not a decision I wanted to make, but I'm off the game because of this.

  • not to be dismissive of your post but this game is the wild west of video games. any chance people have gotten to explode bugs they do it. granted thats with every game but you look at world of warcraft being a perfect example. if you take advantage of a bug, they dont care that it was their programming over sight.... you knew it wasnt intended and took advantage anyway so you get hit with a temp ban and a roll back of what you gained from exploiting.

    very rare instances of this happening in sot. shores of gold hourglass exploit? thats fine. those people got free curses. one of the odd things they actually came down on was burying emissary flags because that would remove "yours" from the item so then you could sell it for commendation progress...... really really odd one for them to care about. i guess they viewed that commendation as something note worthy and having some sort of status? and the alternative? legend of the viel ship wreck voyage exploit lagging the heck out of the servers? thats fine. lagging people out in hourglass because of the map lag bug recently introduced..... thats fine too. using actual hacks? well no way to detect it so as long as no one gets it caught on film ur fine....

    alliance discords allowing 300% progression and even being able to progress hourglass via treasure trove value? thats fine too.

    leader boards getting 30 million ledger progress 1 hour after the month resets? thats also fine....... yet we finally get pve servers and the game has no content, no progression of any form, cant even play on your own ship you worked hard for. why play safer seas when you can just cheat and get pve mode with massive gains?

    the big issue is people trying to honestly work on hourglass and the cheats are insane. so the biggest issue here is you are using something that you think you will be banned for to exploit the game in one way or another. wether thats getting a pve full progress server, or you are one of the bad actors in hourglass.

    but i avoid hourglass because ive seen utube videos of the cheats and how ridiculous they are. plus theres no rewards for your hardwork and they literally have a "waste everyones time" commendation of sailing 1000 miles in hourglass.... ok so ur encouraging runners?

    the only real concern i have for anti cheat is 1... performance... this game already runs insanely bad and is still super buggy for how old it is. and 2... i know a lot of people who use keyboard macros so they can use the rest room. the afk timer is way too short you literally dont even have enough time to use the rest room and especially if your playing alone its not like your leeching off someone

    even looking at some of your links like the genshin impact video right out the start he says how mandatory having anti cheat even is because of cheaters so not having it is a death sentance for a game and look at the player base now being under 1 million. but yea whos to say the bad actors wont decide to shift focus to hack players pcs. if anything sounds more like playing on an alliance discord will be more mandatory than ever.

    i guess the issue is do you trust rare and their programmers to allow their game and anti cheat to have that much access to your machine? im leaning toward no myself but we shall see i guess

  • @keylessword4029 I think that there are a lot of problems with exploits in the game at the moment. I do agree with you that the exploits need to be addressed at some point, but Rare has a lot on their plate with maintaining the game and providing free content updates so I think we as a community should cut them some slack.
    An anti-cheat solution is necessary in online gaming, but the invasive nature of the solution that Rare has chosen is my gripe with the situation. I think that a best practice for game developers would be to try and promote end-user security as best they can in their implementations.

  • @alienlazer I agree with this, but alas; I feel as though many users are more concerned with the immediate effects of a potential solution, than the potential negatives that could happen.

  • @valor-omega I think a lot of the problem stems from people not knowing about the decision that is being forced upon them. More transparency with this situation is better in the case of personal security. If my posts can at the very least help one person make an informed decision on the matter then it was worth it.

  • @alienlazer Personally, I'm not super worried as of yet. I definitely see the potential for issue, but as someone else mentioned, EAC being active while SoT is runing isn't a dealbreaker, as I don't play it as much as I used to.

    I respect this post a lot though. The unfortunate reality is that there's probably no anti-cheat that isn't kernel-level, that will be as effective as cutting the root problem at the source.

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