@aquila-ezio said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
i kinda agree,
i realy had eyes on this online game because Rare promised (on the very first E3 that the game was announced) there would come a option in the game that other players can't attack you.but i advise to try and find friends, be friendly you will find nice people.
to play with, or join a Communitie.
They did? Well I want that option back so I can set it to "Always On".
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@stundorn said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@SavageTwinky it's allways a hard lesson to learn, but if you can manage it to handle with wins and losses and dont loose fun every loss makes the next win something special.
Except its still not working for most people. I'm on the PvP side of things, I like the thrill, I like stealing treasure... we do what we call murder Athena's where we go out of our way to collect every bit of loot, wood, cannon balls, bananas off someone else's ship. We don't rush islands. Its usually 6 hours of boring play time and a few crazy wonderful moments. In a galleon we just steam roll over many many sloops and we occasionally get a galleon to fight against, 9/10 they sink themselves. Very rarely we get a unicorn that fights back and CAN fight. Or we take on crew memenbers and convice them to do our bidding until we get them killed.
The game just isn't working from either perspective at the moment. Very few people are hitting the right balance and the game mechanically just isn't doing what it needs to do to get it right.
"murder Athena's"? That sounds... awesome. And I am on the PVE side of things. I would not mind losing to your crew if your goal is to totally annihilate me in a more role-play specific way, rather than just pedestrian griefing. :-)
@savagetwinky what you stated here is probably why most dont find this game entertaining. Rolling with a galleon crew to steam roll a single man sloop ( 99% of the time) is no challenge. You steam roll a guy who had to take an hour to complete 1 mission (sail time and time to complete mission) steal his loot and sink his ship he had to stock - now he is back where he started and he had no chance to even compete....... thats not being a pirate... thats just being a ridiculous troll. might be fun now, but won't be when it takes an hour to even see a ship because no one plays the game anymore. Simply put, long term that kind of game play will kill this game.
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@cotu42 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
And All the PvPers are leaving because its not a fun game to play.
Again I'm not against PvP. You seem to think that is an issue for me. The problem is the game mechanics do not integrate them well. You and others just keep saying no no no, but based on what? I actually pointed to the mechanics that aren't working... that is upsetting a lot of people, on both sides, and how problematic its becoming. I'm on a PvP gal and I feel like I need to find new people every week since the regular PvPers have been moving on in droves to other games. And when I say "PvP". I don't mean people only looking for a fight. I mean people that like the fight in the context of PvE. Anyone that only wants a fight has been gone since day 1 and the few people that come don't stay long and go...
However PvP is the reason the game is being ruined? This is where I am getting confused, 'cause you seem to be contradicting yourself. Is it because the game has too many people that are "idiot PVP players who want to screw your night up" or "Anyone that only wants a fight has been gone since day 1 and the few people that come don't stay long and go..." so everyone is focused on PvE?
Your original post seems to be a bit salty due to the fact that you were ambushed (which in 99% of the times on the team being ambushed (mistakes were made) as avoiding a battle is pretty easy - though you might be chased across the seven seas and to the ends of the world (which btw happens to the best of us)). In the mean time you state that you also are in favor of PvP, but hate that most people do not manage to give you a decent fight? Though by the sound of it you also didn't really put up much of a fight either.
That is why I believe that the problem you are encountering is more due to the pirates needing to learn to be better pirates. As the issues seem to be more based on the players and their pirating style than the actual game mechanics (which are not perfect, but I do not see the mechanical argument you are making - unless if I read between the lines of your reactions stating: PvP isn't rewarded enough (but that is an assumption on my side).
I personally do not agree with your argument there no pirates out there that want to fight. First of all, it is something you have control over (how do you approach another pirate crew). I tend to base it on a case by case basis where how the player acts towards me determines whether or not I am friendly or foe. I have encountered both frequently, maybe due to my approach being in ones face (which understandably can cause people to panic) and that if people try to kill me and don't talk I just go full assault. Though there are clear differences in skill levels and a fun fight can be hard to come by - as this is all very dependent on the situation, stock, positioning, awareness of the crew and teamwork.
People come and go, as someone that has PvP'd from the beginning my experience on the PvP end has become lackluster because mostly anyone good has left the game or is disinterested in playing it. You missed that distinction. Being apart of a galleon crew there just aren't as many galleons's around that can put up a fight. And sloops generally don't want to. However, the vast majority of people do not engage in PvP often enough to get good at it so you end up with a situation where someone can lose hours of progress because of PvP. I think part of my experience is being on a galleon where the majority of ships on any server now are smaller ships.
The game's current implementation of PvP has turned into undermining someone else's progress. There isn't enough focus on loot for PvP... the voyage system just doesn't construct that type of game. Its completely hit or miss if someone has loot... I mean most of my PvP night's nowadays is just us decorating our ship with Athena crates from other ships, getting their crews to join us and getting them killed, or releasing them on an island and hunting them down. This issue only got exasperated with cooperative events because there is nothing to gain for PvP there.
edit: rereading your post again its clear you didn't understand what I've said or it wasn't clear. I didn't say "no one wants to put up a fight". I said willing and CAN are mostly rare. I haven't been sunk off guard in a while. I've been sunk by 4 crews total in 3 months of play. I remember each of the situations. They all held there own in combat where we were the aggressor, except for one crew of try hards that were stream snipers. The vast majority of PvPing I do doesn't feel good. It feels like borderline griefing. I'm salty because the game is not well structured for fun engaging PvP. I don't get chased, we don't run. We killed 4 alliance ships in a row on stock resources at a fort...
Thank you SO MUCH for this one post in this thread.
For the most part I have Hated, HATED people that kill me for seemingly no reason, thereby ruining my fun & limited hours to play this game (since I work 2 jobs in this American economy) thinking they are just A***** with nothing better to do than grief others. But it never really occurred to me that you guys and gals are starving for gameplay, challenge and/or the thrill of what loot I may have on my ship that would make it worth your while to attack me while anchored or just sailing along. Even though I will still be annoyed for being attacked, I will be less p****d now that I have a better understanding of things from your PVPer perspective.
You and all you PVPers have fun out there. But do try to let us keep some of our loot. #BeMoreGentlerPirate
@ogdirtyape said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
This OP started as a venting of frustration because of the PVP freedoms in place. It has since been championed by someone who claims to"attack everyone I see". If the irony is not lost there, then are the posts just to complain that the game is not exactly what you would like it to be? It is topics like this one, and the "take cross play out to keep us away from cheating pc players that have K/M advantage" that almost keep me from reading and posting on the forums. Almost...
I will agree that there are some PVE mechanics missing from a purely PVE type game, and that there are some PVP mechanics missing from a purely PVP type game. It is a balancing act that is not easily achieved, as commented on daily here in the forums. Just because the game will never be either, doesn't mean that it is failing at both.
I will agree that there seems to be fewer aggressive players on the seas. And that the ones that are still there, seem to be relentless in the pursuit of a battle, or just looking to sink every ship they can find. I think that if Rare took the PVP angle of "fighting over loot" to make PVP more rewarding for that crowd, that it would only alienate further those like the person who started this thread. It would foster attacking every ship seen by those wanting more PVP, and deepen the feeling of what those looking only to complete voyages/commendations see as "griefing".
Now on to my own survey. Conducted by me. During hundreds of hours of game play. Most people in game, are out there with a goal in mind. Trying to obtain some piece of limited time loot, obtain legend status, complete an Athena's voyage, whatever. At those times, the last thing that those people want, is to lose the supplies/animal crates/loot and start the whole process over. Not all of us have another 2, 3, 4 hours to start that process over again. So they sail carefully. Keep a weathered eye out, so to speak. It doesn't mean that they aren't capable of a fight. It just means that they may not want to risk the work already put in.
Not everyone looking for the ability to complete a voyage, nor anyone looking for constant great battles with others on the seas are going to find what they want. There are hundreds of other games to try that might help them find the experience they are looking for. For me? I like this game. I like the balance it has. I like the, forgive me, all of you that hate this reference to the game play, grind. I like the fighting with other ships. I like the necessity of a good crew working together that makes PVP successful. The tension that exists simply because of the fact that there are aggressive players out there makes it fun for me.
I also Thank You for this great post.
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
@ripxdevilmutt said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky what you stated here is probably why most dont find this game entertaining. Rolling with a galleon crew to steam roll a single man sloop ( 99% of the time) is no challenge. You steam roll a guy who had to take an hour to complete 1 mission (sail time and time to complete mission) steal his loot and sink his ship he had to stock - now he is back where he started and he had no chance to even compete....... thats not being a pirate... thats just being a ridiculous troll. might be fun now, but won't be when it takes an hour to even see a ship because no one plays the game anymore. Simply put, long term that kind of game play will kill this game.
Ok... and I explained that is a core problem with the game. The PvP, in the end, is really hard to distinguish from trolling behavior because the game fails to construct a fun fight over loot.
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@cotu42 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
... MOSTLY EDITED out...
The fact that you still seem to think I've stated anything as fact even after stating it is a perceived pattern based on multiple communities, common stated issues. Everyone keeps telling me it's not true... well based on what? Where is rare pointing out how healthy their game is?I'm not sure if I was originally talking to you but the comparison to a survey is because in order to get an accurate view of the community doesn't require thousands of people... that was the point of comparing it to a survey... I'm still waiting for a response to tell me why joining and being apart of MANY communities and interacting with MANY crews, and watching them mostly have a high turn over rate / die out doesn't represent the game to some extent. And how fighting MANY people since day 1 and seeing the makeup of server go from many galleons to galleons are rare, and PvP slowing down significantly from game to game lower competency of the majority of people faced, also are not a representation of the player distribution in any way...
If you mostly solo sloop it will be hard to see because you won't be apart of a larger community as often.. you don't need to rely on finding 2-3 other people to play with on a regular basis. Another benefit of being on a galleon crew most of the time... you gain that perspective on the wider community and play with a lot of different people. Your assuming I lost a few friends when in fact I have to make new ones all the time. That is indictive a high turn over rate.
Regarding your last points above, even though it is not facts and mostly hearsay I definitely see your concern regarding galleons. I am a PVEer like I have stated a few times and I am also worried about the state of the game. I am hoping that means just more brigands, but it could be something more worrisome so I am hoping forgotten shores brings some of those 4-man crew players back!
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
Yep. It's a sandbox. I make my own adventure.
@letslipthedogs said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@jonavuka I got the game for free when I purchased my new Xbox I did not research it. Gave a try and I like it. Just don't like some of the player styles.
You got the game free and you are complaining....
Talk about sense of entitlement.
As for others mentioning lack of Galleons, go back and look at most posts where I said the Brigantine was going to be OP. It is and it's easy to take down Galleons with them.
@letslipthedogs The other nite I got on and just went from ship to ship on my solo sloop slaughtering and stealing. I made some good gold. Seemed like everyone had at least four or more chests of the golden variety. It was a fun nite. After each kill I was like 'I'll call it quits' but then another victim arose. Bombs, swords, bullets flew. Was bloody good fun. I am so glad they have this option in the game.
A lot of times I join up with alliances and play friendly but I love a good rumble or scrap. The game is great for its variety of play styles and personal choices. Its like fable but you arent locked into anything haha. Its a real choice game.
@enf0rcer Very well spoken there mate. I am on the fence for rewarding PvP. But you have definitely given me something to think about as you made your point much clearer than any argument I have seen on this topic. Well done.
What are your thoughts on toxic behavior becoming a thing as a result of rewarding PvP? How would that fit into a reward system as you have described it? I am interested in your thoughts on this as that has always been my biggest reason to argue winning in PvP was the reward and everything else (loot) was just a bonus.
On another note, my views on PvP continue to evolve the longer I play the game. My first several months I tried to live in a shell, avoiding other ships at all costs, for many reasons. Even without having loot on board my ship, I didn't want to lose crates or the supplies I had stocked (wasting valuable game play time on stocking a ship just sucks). And this was before the new UI. I wasn't (and still am barely above average at best) very good at PvP, so any PvP would always result in my ship sinking. In fact, if I saw PvP coming, and could not escape it, my reaction was to simply leave the server and start over, on purpose to deprive that person seeking PvP from getting their thrill through me. But over time as I got a little more confidence, learned how to defend better, my views have changed and I now welcome PvP. Win, lose or draw, I enjoy it. So my views went from wanting dedicated PvE servers to now seeing that the platform we have now is best, just needs tweaks to make it better. And as such I am trying to see things through everyone's eyes to better help my own evolution in the game.
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
Yep. It's a sandbox. I make my own adventure.
Yup, so great... keep it up.. game is still poorly designed. You make your own adventure is fun for you but not necessarily for anyone else... which is why "pvp" in this game is indistinguishable from trolling.
@triheadedmonkey said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@trickrtreat01 they own the game, they have as much reason as anyone else that does, to have an opinion.
Getting a game free and only playing it because you got it free and then asking for the game to be changed is a real sense of entitlement.
Why should Rare listen to someone that probably would have never paid for the game.
Hint: they shouldn't.
@trickrtreat01 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@triheadedmonkey said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@trickrtreat01 they own the game, they have as much reason as anyone else that does, to have an opinion.
Getting a game free and only playing it because you got it free and then asking for the game to be changed is a real sense of entitlement.
Why should Rare listen to someone that probably would have never paid for the game.
Hint: they shouldn't.
No, demanding the game be changed would be entitled. Having an opinion on what would make the game better is something anyone that played it can have.
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
Yep. It's a sandbox. I make my own adventure.
Yup, so great... keep it up.. game is still poorly designed. You make your own adventure is fun for you but not necessarily for anyone else... which is why "pvp" in this game is indistinguishable from trolling.
I beg to differ I ve met multiple people who love the make your own adventure attitude towards this game. Heck look at the twitch streamers like toejahm, and beardgeddon they make a living off streaming their own adventures.
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
Yep. It's a sandbox. I make my own adventure.
Yup, so great... keep it up.. game is still poorly designed. You make your own adventure is fun for you but not necessarily for anyone else... which is why "pvp" in this game is indistinguishable from trolling.
I beg to differ I ve met multiple people who love the make your own adventure attitude towards this game. Heck look at the twitch streamers like toejahm, and beardgeddon they make a living off streaming their own adventures.
So? That doesn't mean it an optimal design. That doesn't mean it isn't breeding an unhealthy type of PvP for many people. The game does very little to construct meaningful conflict over loot so it is indistinguishable from trolling behavior. You're looking for a fight, while others might be trying to finish an Athena's. And I proudly show the cobra cages on the bowsprit! But I also know what it means. I didn't just win a bit of loot. I completely undermined their entire voyage because they can't finish it now.
And that sentiment extends to voyages. Voyages don't pit players against each other in any functional/perspective (perspective might be the wrong word, players just aren't conditioned to voyage in a competitively) way. So the act of PvP is borderline griefing... You're just stopping someone from their voyages, from getting rewarded for their effort.
And the "make your own adventure" is basically a lie. The game is a minimalist sandbox/PvE framework for player interaction which includes PvP. But mostly PvP with some cooperative efforts. You can get loot, tackle a few world events, or murder players. You can even make friends! But your options are still getting loot, tackle a few world events, or murder players.
Your not actually arguing any points here, you just say some people enjoy it so my argument is now somehow invalid? That's, not a valid argument... some people enjoy killing others... we don't say 'it's ok, some people enjoy it I guess'
edit: lots of edits and GRIMAAR
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
Yep. It's a sandbox. I make my own adventure.
Yup, so great... keep it up.. game is still poorly designed. You make your own adventure is fun for you but not necessarily for anyone else... which is why "pvp" in this game is indistinguishable from trolling.
I beg to differ I ve met multiple people who love the make your own adventure attitude towards this game. Heck look at the twitch streamers like toejahm, and beardgeddon they make a living off streaming their own adventures.
So? That doesn't mean it an optimal design. That doesn't mean it isn't breeding an unhealthy type of PvP for many people. The game does very little to construct meaningful conflict over loot so it is indistinguishable from trolling behavior. You're looking for a fight, while others might be trying to finish an Athena's. And I proudly show the cobra cages on the bowsprit! But I also know what it means. I didn't just win a bit of loot. I completely undermined their entire voyage because they can't finish it now.
And that sentiment extends to voyages. Voyages don't pit players against each other in any functional/perspective (perspective might be the wrong word, players just aren't conditioned to voyage in a competitively) way. So the act of PvP is borderline griefing... You're just stopping someone from their voyages, from getting rewarded for their effort.
And the "make your own adventure" is basically a lie. The game is a minimalist sandbox/PvE framework for player interaction which includes PvP. But mostly PvP with some cooperative efforts. You can get loot, tackle a few world events, or murder players. You can even make friends! But your options are still getting loot, tackle a few world events, or murder players.
Your not actually arguing any points here, you just say some people enjoy it so my argument is now somehow invalid? That's, not a valid argument... some people enjoy killing others... we don't say 'it's ok, some people enjoy it I guess'
edit: lots of edits and GRIMAAR
I liked playing dayz/s**m and it's a survival/make ur own adventure game. I approach sea of thieves the same way.
In regards, to the snake baskets on the bow, that just means I'm likely to turn in merchant loot if I sink u.
I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, but you are sure trying to invalidate everyone else's views towards Pvp by all your current comments on this thread.
I don't want structure in Sea of thieves. And I hope rare keeps the game simple.. because that is what is making the game special. In my humble opinion, it sounds like Sea of thieves isn't a game for you, but you're trying to change it to something i hope it will never become.
Edit: lol the profanity filter censored the current game out on steam. s**m isn't a curse word lol.
@personalc0ffee wow , you dont really understand pvp do you ? No rewards for chasing and sinking enemyy ships,, no xp for fighting \traversing storms whilst fighting enemy players no regcognition for a 1 man hounding and sinking 4 man crews , no killfeed? No passive mode for pve'rs ,no global , regional leaderboard , no ranking system for pvp, no battle royale mode? Pvp is a living breathing organsmm in any game AND PLAYERS SHOULD BE REWARDED , OR THEY STOP PLAYING AND GO WERE THEY ARE REWARDED
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Sunk 3 galleons, 4 brigs and 4 sloops, all shot back, in a span of three hours tonight. Couple were return sinks that tried to be get revenge. My ship came close to sinking a couple of times but we prevailed in our sloop. PVP is alive and well in the game. Even with the bugs we managed to have fun. Still a pain to access barrels on a sloop with the bugs.
And what were you doing while PvPing?
Having fun?
Were you trying to PvE?
The only pve I really do is hunting for Random shinies on the shores of islands and ship wrecks. Other than that I level up just fine from the treasure I steal, so that I don't have to do much pve and focus more on pvp.
So you are doing what I already described, just sailing around hunting other ships... k.
Yep. It's a sandbox. I make my own adventure.
Yup, so great... keep it up.. game is still poorly designed. You make your own adventure is fun for you but not necessarily for anyone else... which is why "pvp" in this game is indistinguishable from trolling.
I beg to differ I ve met multiple people who love the make your own adventure attitude towards this game. Heck look at the twitch streamers like toejahm, and beardgeddon they make a living off streaming their own adventures.
So? That doesn't mean it an optimal design. That doesn't mean it isn't breeding an unhealthy type of PvP for many people. The game does very little to construct meaningful conflict over loot so it is indistinguishable from trolling behavior. You're looking for a fight, while others might be trying to finish an Athena's. And I proudly show the cobra cages on the bowsprit! But I also know what it means. I didn't just win a bit of loot. I completely undermined their entire voyage because they can't finish it now.
And that sentiment extends to voyages. Voyages don't pit players against each other in any functional/perspective (perspective might be the wrong word, players just aren't conditioned to voyage in a competitively) way. So the act of PvP is borderline griefing... You're just stopping someone from their voyages, from getting rewarded for their effort.
And the "make your own adventure" is basically a lie. The game is a minimalist sandbox/PvE framework for player interaction which includes PvP. But mostly PvP with some cooperative efforts. You can get loot, tackle a few world events, or murder players. You can even make friends! But your options are still getting loot, tackle a few world events, or murder players.
Your not actually arguing any points here, you just say some people enjoy it so my argument is now somehow invalid? That's, not a valid argument... some people enjoy killing others... we don't say 'it's ok, some people enjoy it I guess'
edit: lots of edits and GRIMAAR
I liked playing dayz/s**m and it's a survival/make ur own adventure game. I approach sea of thieves the same way.
In regards, to the snake baskets on the bow, that just means I'm likely to turn in merchant loot if I sink u.
I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, but you are sure trying to invalidate everyone else's views towards Pvp by all your current comments on this thread.
I don't want structure in Sea of thieves. And I hope rare keeps the game simple.. because that is what is making the game special.
If my argument is valid then I don't know what your point is. There either is or isn't design flaws that create a potentially toxic PvP environment.
Both DayZ/Arc have much more in the sandbox... base building, some complexity to the sandbox / progression... survival mechanics.. a heavy resource game... PvP is built in as part of the survival aspect. The entire game is built on the idea of lasting longer than other players. There are conflicts built into the structure of that game for PvP to work.
And the big difference with SoT, there no objectives... your just building up a character and making sure players don't take your stuff. Its a completely different game than SoT where you're trying to complete game objectives, commendations, events, voyages. This isn't an unfettered make your own adventure game. And none of those objectives apart from forts have any conflict or reason to PvP built in except for taking someone else's effort.
@qagy if ur Pvp for anything other than the fight you're doing it wrong. Pvp is for the epic fight. No further rewards are necessary IMHO.
@qagy said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@treefittymonsta the entire gaming community who 'instantly' stopped playing disagrees
I still find good fights. The other night I had an epic fight with a sloop last 40 minutes traversing almost across the map. We both came close to sinking when we died we would chat on the ferry of the damned, exclaiming wow man.. GG.. we concluded the fight by meeting together at ancient spire and had a duel to determine the winner. I lost the duel but man was it a fun night. We ended up parting ways but I'll always remember that fight. That is my reward. An epic fight memory, that is all I need.
The people who are stop playing, are looking for a different type of game that sot will hopefully never be. They have moved on and so should you if you dislike the game so much.
@lucky-13-x said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@luckydaddy0731 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
I think the pvp is perfect. Keeps you alert and ready fo battle at any time. I’ve spent hours getting ready for skelly ship battles just to be sank on my way there by another crew and I told them great job cuz they did an amazing job taking me out and I started over. It’s an open sandbox game where anything can happen. It’s definitely a huge point of the game to have pvp
Yeah, I say things other than "great job" when that happens to me. Again we need a roaming NAVY to keep PVPers on their toes and give us PVEers a chance the PVPers's attention will be directed elsewhere.
While I get your intention, a roaming AI navy would be out of place in Sea of Thieves. If you read the lore, you find Sea of Thieves is its own little world that exists outside from normal civilization. There are no nations, therefore no navies. It’s a cursed world. That said, if players wish to form their own fleets of “pirate protectors,” there’s nothing stopping them. We have all the tools we need! I’ve seen some crews do exactly this, in fact.
I think ultimately it will be up to players to decide how or if there should be any PvP justice on the Sea of Thieves.
@savagetwinky said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@cotu42 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
- snip * dumb story about something interesting that happened.
Nobody is suggesting interesting things don't happen....
I am not even stating it is not true, what I am stating is that it is your point of view and that point of view might be 100% true, 80% true or less. However it doesn't change the fact that evidence is something else than speaking the truth. Therefore I advise not to make such statements - which I have explained why, as people feel you are forcing your point of view on to them while they might see it from a different perspective without the evidence to back it up. Changing someones view point based on what we call anecdotal evidence which is what it is is extremely hard, regardless of how accurate you are. As my experience, though I agree on aspects you are talking about - we have a different perspective on others and I would hate a useful conversation to understand your point of view gets derailed due to those type of statements and resulting in another: You don't know what you are talking about, Go Away, Get Gut and what not conversations.
I'm not forcing my point of view on everyone. People just keep saying its anecdotal even though I have a ton of time on the game, a ton of time in different communities, a ton of time on a galleon... or outright denying there is any issue... because the game fills the design requirements...
The biggest response I keep geting is restating what the game is supposed to be... which doesn't really counter anything I've said.
The design requirements... you mean the Game Design of the game. Why people like playing it, yes it meets those requirements. I have also never stated that the Game Design as it is now is perfect either or not up for discussion on how to improve.
Why I am stating that you are claiming this are fact due to the way you formulate it and keep trying to back it up with anecdotal evidence and claiming that that evidence is not anecdotal but based on a survey like point of view without any data to back it up.
No that doesn't mean I'm stating it as fact. But since you don't have any reasonable counter-argument other than no, this is where all of these conversations go. I've pointed to game mechanics, common responses by players, shrinking discord communities, personal experience... multiple points to build a solid perspective.
If you make claims, back them up. As we do not see eye to eye on what you are claiming.
Now, here is the thing. I have also been playing since day one, I play almost daily, I am part of discord communities, I tend to play in different sized crews and when I don't have friends or just feel like it I actually join the open crew system (mainly to see how other people play and their experiences and experiencing it for myself - I hop around crews till I find someone with a mic and tend to start up a conversation about the game). So, yes I understand your point of view, I even think parts of it are actual issues in the game and is why I am engaged in this conversation.
I do not believe your view is wrong or based on fiction, there is truth to what you say, however based on my own experience I also do not agree with it completely.
Based on the people I have talked to, the people I play with and my sessions in the game, as well as just my background and knowledge of game design. We have different views, 'cause we have different experiences and conversations due to when, how we play and who we are as humans. Your experience is not worth less than mine, but I cannot accept yours as fact/irrefutable truth if my experience tells me different and you do not show me what you base your conclusion on so I can evaluate it for myself.
My ideas and view may be flawed or might push the game in the wrong direction according to your views. Though unless you have actual evidence we do not have the same facts in front of us and all we can do is share these views - hopefully without making those type of statements as they cause people to post things like: That's not true, GET GUT, just another hardcore PvPer saying PvP is dead while we just got sunk and what not. Which just aren't benefiting the conversation (risk of being locked).
Great, so you concede there is a problem! You may disagree exactly the way I describe it or with my solution... but there is a design flaw in the current game design...
Concede? We were battling? I thought we were having a reasonable conversation about the game, but clearly you are only interested in winning.
Btw. I am not conceding as there are always design flaws in every single game in the world. Video Games and especially multiplayer games are always able to improve.
World of Warcraft, which was an amazing game when it was released but had so many flaws within its game design. Though still millions of players played the game and it has dominated an entire genre for a very long time. Extremely flawed and shattered records. Having flaws in a game is not the same as: All the veterans are leaving, All the good PvPers are leaving, etc. Games and especially like how this game is setup are a never ending cycle of change, with the goal to improve.
Like I have stated, I do not have the same point of view as yours.
Facts have nothing to do with proposed solutions... but we'd probably have to agree on the problem, which I think like most people you're stopping before you hit the source. People complain there is no reason to hunt or go out of their way to engage in PvP... there isn't enough incentive to do so. So bounties are a solution!
But I see the voyaging failing to create a situation that the loot fight happens more naturally. Most people don't take the time to think about why they are bored, they just start hunting other players for the thrill. Then they complain about not having reasons for the hunt, and it being unrewarding. It's pretty clear that bounties are trying to fix a symptom, a behavior being fostered out of boredom over the normal course of the game...
Well, we disagree on this as I believe that Athena voyages actually fit the bill from a design perspective.
This is pretty much the PvP scenario, which I try to illustrate in my story that you so kindly called dumb.
This is a way to look at it as a design centered around contested loot. If you do not agree that this is contested loot our definitions clearly differ, as for me contested means out on the open waters and can already be in the hands of other pirates or only obtainable by them (requiring one to analyze the ships movements before striking). There is just one major problem with this design as this is one of the scenario's where the engagement actually took place at a right time in the voyage. Be too early and the attackers get nothing and might even ruin the fun for the defenders (loss of crates). Same thing goes with being too late. There usually 3 sweet spots timing wise: before they head to one of the three outpost stops most groups have: Merchant 1, Merchant 2, Athena delivery.
This causes a big risk that even in victory the attackers receive nothing and if victorious as a defender you currently just get to keep what you already had... A bounty system is something that would be something to reward the victor with something small regardless of the amount of loot on the line. For me the balance would be very important, as it should be a bonus and not the main source of income and is why I am stating it should be on a long cool down on killing the same targets, so would require hopping around (which prevents griefing) and should be a limited size reward where most likely the people attacking would be worth more maybe (PvP stat based) than the people that do not do it often. In any case the reward should never be more efficient than going on a voyage or doing other events even when hopping.
Not sure if you hold this view, people think the potential of PvP is an important part of the PvE... We both proposing a simila5r solution, some way to push players together. Yours an explicit incentive to gank people while I just want a way to up the probability of crossing paths based on Loot/Voyages.
Well, I do not believe it is one way or the other on how to solve this - more variety is also required and for me they can be more centered around PvP game-play. Adjustments to current systems or introductions of new features is not exclusive of one another.
I am personally a big fan of the open PvP element in the game and would never push for a separation.
The fact that you called my experience dumb, while I was using it as an illustration. Came over as disrespectful to me. Especially 'cause you base your words on your own experience. Therefore this will be my last response and is the reason I did not engage on all the talking points. Hope you enjoy the seas and may the wind be firmly in your back.
@trickrtreat01 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@letslipthedogs said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
@jonavuka I got the game for free when I purchased my new Xbox I did not research it. Gave a try and I like it. Just don't like some of the player styles.
You got the game free and you are complaining....
Talk about sense of entitlement.
Are my concerns worth more, 'cause I paid full price for the game? It shouldn't be. The standards that people up hold should be based on what it is and sure the value can be a factor, but based on its retail price/appraisal. This remains the same, regardless of whether it was obtained through a present (free), deal/discount (which is not free, they bought a Xbox) or retail price by a single individual.
Btw. stating that someones opinion is worth less due to the price they got something at is actually entitlement, as you are considering their personal financial transaction as a factor of being allowed to express it. Sorry had to point out the hypocrisy.
@cotu42 said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
The design requirements... you mean the Game Design of the game. Why people like playing it, yes it meets those requirements. I have also never stated that the Game Design as it is now is perfect either or not up for discussion on how to improve.
Ok so we agree that if the game meets some requirements doesn't mean its good. Or that the requirements make any real sense. So we can also come to an agreement that using "it meets requirements" to counter an argument is pretty meaningless?
What matters is describing the requirements and the benefits of having them.
If you make claims, back them up. As we do not see eye to eye on what you are claiming.
I did back them up. You didn't counter it with anything meaningful... your own perspective on the community or the issues they are having. The usage of claiming someone's opinion and perception is anecdotal without providing hard facts to prove them wrong. This is a forum and the conversion heavily revolves around perception and opinion... so we shouldn't be mistaking statements as facts, and calling something anecdotal again is another pretty meaningless argument. Because that would suggest playing the game and interacting with the community produces unreliable information...
Concede? We were battling? I thought we were having a reasonable conversation about the game, but clearly you are only interested in winning.
How is conceding "losing"? That's what happens in a conversation if you argue against something that you might be wrong about..
Btw. I am not conceding as there are always design flaws in every single game in the world. Video Games and especially multiplayer games are always able to improve.
World of Warcraft, which was an amazing game when it was released but had so many flaws within its game design. Though still millions of players played the game and it has dominated an entire genre for a very long time. Extremely flawed and shattered records. Having flaws in a game is not the same as: All the veterans are leaving, All the good PvPers are leaving, etc. Games and especially like how this game is setup are a never ending cycle of change, with the goal to improve.
Like I have stated, I do not have the same point of view as yours.
Wow! way to concede while also trying to walk it back... Unlike WoW rare stopped reporting their numbers. All games have flaws but let's not pretend WoW and SoT flaws are even remotely in the same league. One game went to crush records... the other game is a massive deflation of player engagement and discontent. Community engagement, widespread and reoccurring complaints... are all evidence to suggest the reality is closer to the way I describe it. There is some real potential with this game, but the only people who are finding it are the ones that really are forgiving and willing to slog through the game's flaws to find the masterpiece underneath.
Well, we disagree on this as I believe that Athena voyages actually fit the bill from a design perspective.
This is pretty much the PvP scenario, which I try to illustrate in my story that you so kindly called dumb.
- People starting an Athena's claim themselves the Defenders and holders of the loot
- People can analyze your movement and realize you are doing an Athena's
- People can decide that they want to be the Attackers and are after the loot
- Engagement happens one side loses the other wins
4.1) Defender is victorious and keeps all the loot.
4.2) Attacker is victorious and grabs the loot
4.2.1) Cages are left behind as they have no value
4.2.2) They took the cages- Attackers/Defenders rush back
5.1) If Attackers decided to come back go back to 4.
5.2.1) Defenders rushed back and engage Attackers - head back to 4. If 4.2.1 - Cages were lost and Athená's quest failed.
5.2.2) Defenders rushed back and head to where they sunk. If 4.2.1 Cages are recovered and they continue on their way, else they might still try 5.2.1 or Athena's quest failed.This is a way to look at it as a design centered around contested loot. If you do not agree that this is contested loot our definitions clearly differ, as for me contested means out on the open waters and can already be in the hands of other pirates or only obtainable by them (requiring one to analyze the ships movements before striking). There is just one major problem with this design as this is one of the scenario's where the engagement actually took place at a right time in the voyage. Be too early and the attackers get nothing and might even ruin the fun for the defenders (loss of crates). Same thing goes with being too late. There usually 3 sweet spots timing wise: before they head to one of the three outposts stops most groups have: Merchant 1, Merchant 2, Athena delivery.
Ok... just because it's in the open sea doesn't mean it's contested. It can be.. but that's not the same thing. To be contested requires 2 people fighting over it to make it. That's why you can do a fort uncontested... because no one showed up to stop you. It doesn't become contested until someone decides to do point number 4 and that means departing from what your doing now, to get take their loot.
said:
- A struggle for superiority or victory between rivals: England's contest with Spain for domination of the seas.
- A competition, especially one in which entrants perform separately and are rated by judges: a spelling contest.
Now let's take a look at Athena's... if 2 people are doing an Athena... the prize is at the end of the voyage. No one has any strong feelings over the loot half the time, many players just leave it on the island because of the time investment... If the loot is unimportant to both of them until the end... what is the point of contesting someone elses? Its mostly just because its boring and people dislike athenas...
Whats the result of this? Well if someone acquired the athena crates than someone else lost something of significantly more value. The value of the crate as part of an objective for someone else and had absolutely next to no value for the thief.
The game in its current form is being able to contest everything, including someone's ability to finish a timed event or finish a long voyage. It completely relies on players to contest loot though... and when thats not a FUN experience they just kill everything. It has nothing to do about rewards really.
This causes a big risk that even in victory the attackers receive nothing and if victorious as a defender you currently just get to keep what you already had... A bounty system is something that would be something to reward the victor.
And it's still a band-aid for building an incentive to get to 4. In order for the PvP to be fun and not a gank fest, you have to build some structure in for contesting loot without relying on players to do it.
A bounty system.. will create a gank on-site mentality. You're still trying to fix a lopsided opportunity cost of going out of your way to kill someone... because they might be doing an Athena's and leaving everything behind or doing some commendation event... they might not have loot because its unimportant. Your not solving the problem of unimportant loot, your not creating incentive to contest loot, or build a scenario/voyage that constructs contested loot... What you're doing with bounties, is skipping any important loot had as an incentive for PvP and rewarding ganking.
I know! The solution to ships either not having loot because its unimportant or someone just hasn't picked it up yet... is to not need it!
Jimmy - So what will we be pirating?
Salt and tears my boy!
The fact that you called my experience dumb, while I was using it as an illustration. Came over as disrespectful to me. Especially 'cause you base your words on your own experience. Therefore this will be my last response and is the reason I did not engage on all the talking points. Hope you enjoy the seas and may the wind be firmly in your back.
The "fact" that I called your experience dumb? Care to substantiate that claim?
@personalc0ffee said in Pvp is ruining SOT:
Meh, if one don't like it, then it is probably best to stop torturing oneself and move on.
It's becoming painfully obvious you are no fan of PVP. I am willing to bet you were sunk a few times and would like nothing better than to see PVP'ers leave the game.
@lucky-13-x yes they told it,
i know that for a FACT because i hate online gameplay becasue of all the children and losers that kill you, so i thought this game i NEED to check out.
But i should have know Rare did not keep there promis
as soon Rare joint Mircosoft they got the Microsoft virus.
Lucky the real Rare is now somewhere safe form Microsoft
they need to get working on the bananacrate achievement and the shipwreck achievement
contested
