Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

  • @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @nquarter said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    I have to completely disagree. I don't think a Reward should be given, when you haven't actually "finished" a Voyage by handing in the items you were sent to retrieve. It kind of contradicts the purpose of the Voyage... well what vague purpose they implemented within their Story anyway.

    In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Risking a Reward for Success. It is much more rewarding [not talking about Rep, or Gold], but a sense of accomplishment of actually making it to the end without losing a single piece of Item, whether that be by running, or by standing your ground and fighting back.

    Some people already run when they have Loot on board, and some fight back. This will not change regardless of if we get Rep for Completing a Voyage, or handing in a Voyage. It will still be the same, but there will just be that added "Risk" aspect to be able to receive something a little extra at the end by handing in the Items.

    I play Solo quite a bit, because I enjoy that Risk of dealing with Duo Sloops, or Galleon's, and coming out on top. Yes sometimes I don't, and I do lose everything, but hey, that's just the nature of the Game. I just shrug it off and start another Voyage.

    I think giving free Rep before the Items were handed in, would create another form for the Community to purely grind for Rep. They will do full Voyages, yet care not if they lose their Items, because the Risk of their Reward will be completely washed out to Sea... so to speak.

    They would have a sense of carelessness, because they are given what they desire, which is Rep, surprising enough, is what the Progression in SoT is all about.

    The Game needs to make ways to allow players to WANT to play the Game correctly, by doing Voyages, succeeding in the Voyages, and earning their Rewards and Bonus afterwards. This will be the incentive Players need.

    We are not asking for a full reward, most of the reward should still come from an outpost we completely agree. The vast majority of players do NOT turn and fight when they have loot I can assure you :P

    What we are suggesting is a BONUS on voyage complete. This will give players more encouragement to make riskier game decisions as if it goes badly, they won't walk away with 0. I agree with the feeling of accomplishment, I also feel great when I successfully run from an enemy, and it is so thrilling to be chased, and naval combat is really fun. These experiences can all be retained with our suggestion, as most of the reward will STILL come from handing in loot at an outpost. It's just if a player is bested, or makes a decision which results in their demise, they don't have such a crippling loss and waste a significant amount of their time, as they have still gained SOME exp.

    You can't say the risk of their reward will be washed out to sea, that depends on quantity. If for instance you were given 5% of you reputation up front and your loot was worth 95% would you not care about your loot? I don't think so, I'm sure you'd want to cash in and get that 95%. If you were given 80% up front, and your loot was worth 20% would you care? Personally I wouldn't so much. I do agree it is an important thing to consider, but that's why quantity is so important. It is very feasible to implement this idea whilst keeping the value and risk element in the game however. This is the exact reason I support the incentive of this thread while being 100% against the OP suggestion of ALL loot on voyage complete, you are correct, that removes far too much risk from the game.

    Also, be careful when you say 'play the game correctly', the devs specifically want players to play the game how they want. I do agree that all players should be encouraged to participate in the 'full game experience' (PvPvE) but Rare want to support people who prefer PvP or prefer PvE too. This suggestion will primarily encourage PvE, and healthy PvPvE interactions. (If people have received some rep and know they won't walk away with 0 they are more likely to be up for PvP combat, which is healthy for the game)

    Yes, and I understand the want of a Bonus, although I'll always state that the Bonus should be by handing in the Items you were requested to retrieve, because that is the actual purpose of the Voyage in the first place. The NPC didn't ask you to go "find" them only, so why get a Bonus for that? Gaining the Items is a breeze to do. Completing a Voyage is where the Content is.

    If a player makes a wrong move, then that would just be a lesson. I've made bad decisions that I've regretted, but I've never made that same decision a 2nd time while I had a Haul.

    Sea of Thieves is all about the Roll of a Dice. I've been doing Level 40+ GH Voyages, and 95% of Chests I dig up, are Castaway, and Seafarers. So to state that I would care about Items that give next to no Rep at that Level would be a Risk for us, is kind of laughable.

    Having a System in place, that grants Rep on handing in required Items would give these worthless Chests a Value, there-for, would increase the Risk.

    Yes the Devs do want people to play how they want, but if the Devs implement features into a Game, then it is to be played in the way they envisioned. Of course though my comment[s] was obviously aimed at the Rep Grinders, who half do Voyages, and take away the enjoyment of achievement. If that's the way they want to play, then by all means, go for gold, but implementing a System that makes these players want to finish full Voyages successfully from start to finish, would be a achievement for Rare to create something that people enjoy for how they created it.

  • @touchdown1504 Oh me too. I don't mind doing fetch quests but no more. I'd love a PvP faction but I suppose I can see why that is controversial, but if they do add a new faction they have to make it more interesting and unique. PvP related. Sea monster related. Even cooking/fishing/food related?! (Tho I'm sure it wouldn't be the latter haha) Just something fresh!

  • @entspeak You literally just contradicted yourself...

    1. Oh and giving a cushion to loss will diminish the tension and paranoia
    2. Oh but people will STILL not want to take risks because they still want their loot!

    Right... so apparently people are going to be less worried about losing their loot, but they're still going to be worried about it?

    And you can't speak for everyone. I'm sure some people would still voyage in exactly the same way yes. But I can tell you that many people (many of which are on this thread) would definitely take larger risks, the main one being not shunning PvP and being happier to embrace it and have fun with it!

    We have already explained that PvP is more difficult than PvE, a point which you yourself made, so there is ALREADY more incentive to PvE. Why would people choose the more difficult route to the same end goal? They can easily implement this suggestion in a way they see fit or find another feasible solution whilst keeping the game in a state they are happy with. We are just raising concerns and feedback from our experiences. Any game developer worth their salt listens to their player feedback, and Rare have shown quite frequently that they ARE listening.

    Anyway, to be fair @entspeak you have voiced your opposition. You are never going to get us to stop discussing this, your opposition and reasons for it are logged on this thread, so you really don't need to comment on this thread anymore. I respect the fact you disagree, genuinely, but continuing this discussion is taking none of us anywhere. It's literally a case of 'yea i disagree because' 'yea but it would be good because', over and over and over. Lets stop wasting both of our time, yea?

  • @urihamrayne said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @touchdown1504 are you implying that you dislike when people come in to the echochamber to point out the flaws? Look at all the traction this thread got mate, you think Rare is going to pretend this doesn't exist? If nobody stands against it to scrutonize it and criticize it, what hope do we have for the future of this game? Should we just expect low efford posting being hailed and paraded over actual quality posts, we would just get thing added into the game for being popular instead of being good.

    I have absolute confidence that Rare will not make that kind of mistake.

    I think we just both dislike when people are ignoring and not actively addressing the benefits we have said a suggestion will have and are being incredibly dismissive for the sake of it. Oh and people making opposing arguments not based on 'the current system is better, because..' but being based on 'yea the current system works. so just leave it. don't touch it. No improvements can be made, it's fine it works.'

  • @nquarter But a bonus on voyage hand in would literally not achieve anything. If you add a greater reward for hand in, you are making this problem worse because if people do lose their loot, they lose MORE than they do currently, making the current feelings of negativity experienced by players only that much worse.

    I am not saying players shouldn't learn from their mistakes, that system can remain in the game...

    Yes, exactly my point - the chests need to hold the majority of the value so they still have risk associated with them. You're bringing up a separate issue, as far as I'm concerned I don't see why 40+ rep factions still result in finding so many sea farers in the first place. We are not discussing that or the lack of risk due to that though we are purely addressing player loss and their current experiences with the rep system, for many players it is a truly deflating experience. It isn't just the fact you've lost 100% of the loot you have on board, it's the fact it was stolen so now another player has them and is sailing away with them... Obviously that system is fine and fundamental to the game, and it's fun... but many players find that loss a bit too extreme at the moment. (look on the forums currently, just noticed another thread with someone very angry about losing their loot, and they seem like a decent guy, just really bummed out and frustrated. Why should a casual game make players experience loss TO THIS DEGREE? Loss is fine, but this extreme?) It is too much dog-eat-dog, it would be perfectly feasible to reduce that loss a bit, and the way we are suggesting is by a rep bonus on voyage complete.

    Our suggestion would do that... if you got bonus rep on completing your voyage, and then your loot reward on hand in, players will literally have more incentive to reach VC and complete their voyage, and then to successfully hand in their loot. If you like, there will be 2 'save points' too, a small one, then a larger one on hand in.

  • @angrycoconut16 It’s not at all a contradiction. The willingness to choose to turn and fight when someone engages you has nothing to do with the paranoia. You’re not in a state of paranoia when someone is actually after you.

    I simply made reference to how human nature works. No, I can’t definitively say this will happen for everyone, but neither can you say that many will take more risks. So, you have a relative few people claiming that they will take greater risks, and then you have human nature. I’m more willing to bet on human nature than a relative few people’s claims made now... when it’s easy to make such a claim. And, with regard to your claim of many, there is another interesting fact about human nature: people are more likely to communicate with a company about a negative than they are about a positive.

    And, yes, a developer may take feedback and come up with a solution that works. The feedback from you is that the current mechanics for saving progress are dull, their idea for crew coordination as a means of protecting your stuff is dull, and, because you don’t want to do those dull things, the resulting feeling of loss (because of a choice you made as a player) is too great. That’s feedback. Fair enough. But, you’re taking it one step further and trying to suggest a solution yourselves. Now, there’s no real problem with that - it is “Feedback & Suggestions”, after all. But, whether or not game design solution is necessary to address your feedback is debatable - hence, the debate. And, if you are trying to present a solution, you should also be trying to work out the negatives inherent in your solution.

  • @entspeak Ok dodge it. That's what you're great at.

    I can make an educated guess that people will feel better about risks, yes I can. That is ALSO human nature, if you stand to lose less, humans will inherently be prepared to take bigger risks. In the case of this game this includes engaging in PvP combat even with loot, attacking to defend themselves (rather than just fleeing as the majority of people do), visiting more islands before handing in, and not being told to act like a robot going back and forth in order to ensure they get SOMETHING for their time. Yes, that is the nature of fetch quests and that's fine, but what I am saying is that this is also discouraging players from PvP if they possess loot, contributing to the deflating experience many players are going through and adding to the negativity PvE players often view PvP players with.

    You are correct, people are more likely to come to the forums when something is negative, that's very true, but that doesn't mean these experiences aren't valid, and it does not inherently mean that everyone who has had a negative experience wants to spend the time to go to the forum to try to achieve positive change. Many people just uninstall the game, many already have and probably won't return.

    Lol, you aren't listening. We're done. I mentioned ONCE that it was a dull player mechanic for Rare to expect people to go A to B to A, and A to C to A, and then repeat if they want to protect they're loot. Of course you don't HAVE to do that, but the longer you don't and the more islands you go to, the more you stand to lose, thus your solution is 'well just visit the outpost more often'... which yes, is essentially A to B to A, rinse and repeat. You don't see how that's enforcing a particularly dull play style? There is nothing wrong with the advice to visit the outpost more often, that is good and solid advice. But are you honestly saying you wouldn't rather people were a bit more encouraged to engage in PvP, or take more risks which will make for a more interesting game play experience for everyone? I mention the dull experience ONCE and you jump on it, as finally you think you have a viable argument from twisting my words out of proportion. It's pathetic.

    Your opinion has been noted, and your concerns about the negatives of our idea have been acknowledged and addressed. Thank you.

  • @angrycoconut16 I directly addressed what you said. How on earth is that “dodging?” It’s like you guys have a limited vocabulary and are spinning a wheel to decide which word to use even if it doesn’t apply. What, exactly, did I dodge? “That word, I don’t think it means what you think it means.”

  • @angrycoconut16 No, you said it was dull after I rejected your reductio ad absurdum fallacy. It’s not simply about going from A to B to A to C to A, it’s about risk assessment: how much am I willing to put at risk on the open seas or while I am trying to tackle another island? And, if I’m willing to risk more while on another island, am I willing to take steps to protect myself from loss. If you carry more loot around with you, you make a choice to increase that risk, but with increased risk comes the potential for greater loss. That’s how the game is designed. You can describe that as “casual” til the end of time - it is anything but. Go big, you risk losing big.

    You want to change from a low low to simply a low. You want to be able to increase your risk of loss, but lose less. You want the game to be easier. You want to diminish the tension and paranoia the devs want to create - you want to affect that. Stop trying to claim that these aren’t the aims of this idea.

  • @entspeak Game which was marketed at casual players and kids aged 12+? I'd say it's very casual.

    Our system would still entail risk. Perhaps slightly less AT risk as you would have gained some rep, but still plenty at risk to have to make careful decisions and still want to consider your decisions carefully.

    I have never and will never debate how the game is designed. If you live in the present all the time, you will never move forward. We all know what the game is. We are suggesting a system which would improve player experience whilst retaining the current game design. Anyway you don't really understand what we are trying to address. This really is my last reply as our conversations yield nothing constructive.

  • @enpixelate I think you should get extra rep for completing voyages but also get rep from selling chests so you get rewards even if your ship is plundered and you lose your loot.

  • @angrycoconut16 "I think we just both dislike when people are ignoring and not actively addressing the benefits"

    l**o keep telling yourself that, that some nice denial, can't wait for the other stages of grief, oh wait... "Oh and people making opposing arguments not based on 'the current system is better, because..'"

    We are past bargaining.

  • @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak Game which was marketed at casual players and kids aged 12+? I'd say it's very casual.

    Our system would still entail risk. Perhaps slightly less AT risk as you would have gained some rep, but still plenty at risk to have to make careful decisions and still want to consider your decisions carefully.

    I have never and will never debate how the game is designed. If you live in the present all the time, you will never move forward. We all know what the game is. We are suggesting a system which would improve player experience whilst retaining the current game design. Anyway you don't really understand what we are trying to address. This really is my last reply as our conversations yield nothing constructive.

    Marketing a game to kids 12+ doesn’t equal casual game - unless you’re trying to imply that 12 year olds are incapable of playing anything other than casual games. What marketing language was aimed at casual players? Perhaps, like your perceived definition of “dodge”, you have a different definition of “casual.” What do you mean by “casual”?

    Re: risk... shift in goal post noted. We are now moving away from no affect to - perhaps, a slight affect and it’s only taken over a thousand of posts to get there.

    If you believe the game is a casual game, then you don’t appear to know what the game is. And figuring out what the game is is crucial to understanding how it needs to be fixed. Why? Because, if you are under the mistaken notion that this is a “casual” game, the solutions you try to suggest will stem from that mistaken notion.

    You want to make the game a casual game.

  • @entspeak said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    I’ve already discussed what I would change in the reward system... in a post to you. If you didn’t “hear” that, the problem most likely was that I wasn’t listening, I suppose.

    I echo this sentiment.

  • @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak You literally just contradicted yourself...

    1. Oh and giving a cushion to loss will diminish the tension and paranoia
    2. Oh but people will STILL not want to take risks because they still want their loot!

    Right... so apparently people are going to be less worried about losing their loot, but they're still going to be worried about it?

    Less worried implies there is still some degree of worry.
    Less != none

  • @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    It isn't just the fact you've lost 100% of the loot you have on board, it's the fact it was stolen so now another player has them and is sailing away with them...

    So we finally get to the meat of the argument... and it is that players such as yourself have misinterpreted what kind of game this is and don't like that there are Thieves in Sea of Thieves. You face a herculean task convincing anyone that's actually a problem and needs addressing.

  • @lotrmith you adressed the same person in two replies, try to avoid double posting as there is an edit feature built in most forums.

  • @enpixelate you get an achievement for miles sailed on quests. So in the end you don't get the money, you get the Xbox achievement.

    If that is valuable for you, is for you to decide.

  • @lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @angrycoconut16 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

    @entspeak You literally just contradicted yourself...

    1. Oh and giving a cushion to loss will diminish the tension and paranoia
    2. Oh but people will STILL not want to take risks because they still want their loot!

    Right... so apparently people are going to be less worried about losing their loot, but they're still going to be worried about it?

    Less worried implies there is still some degree of worry.
    Less != none

    Which is the point I'm making with tension on the seas which you are so worried about losing.

    A little less does not mean none.

  • @lotrmith Read previous posts. I have addressed this. I've never said loss is a problem. I give up, no more discussion between us.

  • @Skyewauker Please refrain from name calling and baiting other users on the Forums, as it is a violation of our Forum rules. Your post has been deleted.

  • Ahoy all, this thread has been locked because it no longer is a place for thoughtful discussion but has now become a place for arguments and behaviour that is not in line with the Forum Rules or the Pirate Code.

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