New PVP changes

@captainseahippo said in New PVP changes:

My main point with this is that it is an unnecessary change seeing as there will be servers with only Xbox Players or only PC Players coming the future as a choice. All we need is a break period from double gunning until the choice to be in an specific server comes out then add it back in again.
Thanks.

Not sure I agree with that. There are many mix crews out there so plenty xbox players will be in mixed servers. I dont really think its fair for them to be left dealing with a game exploit just because they want to play with friends they have made while crossplay wasnt optional. Also as far PC is concerned as a PCer I dont want to have to deal with other PCers using double gunning either. I loathe game exploits that make PvP cheap so I wont use it.

I havent fought yet since update so I have no idea if its as bad as you say it but if I take your word for it I would conclude something needs to be done but adding back in a unintended exploit isnt it.

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon. If you can't aim quickly that's your fault, and someone who can should not be punished for it, yet that is exactly what just happened last past.

1x1 you would have to use skill there. 1x2 No skill required anymore. 2 people are highly likely to kill 1 person because of how much they are forced to slow down to aim and shoot due to insane gun times. I don't even want to hear the force everyone to use a sword excuse, this game is supposed to be open to options, and changing things around took that away. Instead of balance they created a imbalance between ship sizes. So no, it's not balanced, people who used to like to pvp don't like it as much after this patch, and contrary to belief, most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. In a math sense, that last patch was a horrible idea.

I just would rather have my gun ready after I sprint or get off an object instead of waiting to stop sprinting, then the animation, then finally drawing the weapon up.

Edit: You change the movement in pvp too, watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating, don't think for one second this game is immune to a rapid decline in population

@mc-leggers mhm... yea so far no math so you can’t say the numbers don’t lie unless you got numbers. I believe the animation happens only for switching if I’m wrong then I suggest plan a second ahead so you can get that shot. I have taken a crew of three with only a need of a cutlass. If I got another crew member and we’re verse 4 just take out one at a time. And then take the last two with a split up. Though I gave anecdotal evidence you can get the sense that number of players can not always equal the outcome of the battle.

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon. If you can't aim quickly that's your fault, and someone who can should not be punished for it, yet that is exactly what just happened last past.

1x1 you would have to use skill there. 1x2 No skill required anymore. 2 people are highly likely to kill 1 person because of how much they are forced to slow down to aim and shoot due to insane gun times. I don't even want to hear the force everyone to use a sword excuse, this game is supposed to be open to options, and changing things around took that away. Instead of balance they created a imbalance between ship sizes. So no, it's not balanced, people who used to like to pvp don't like it as much after this patch, and contrary to belief, most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. In a math sense, that last patch was a horrible idea.

I just would rather have my gun ready after I sprint or get off an object instead of waiting to stop sprinting, then the animation, then finally drawing the weapon up.

Edit: You change the movement in pvp too, watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating, don't think for one second this game is immune to a rapid decline in population

What "maths" are you talking about ?
Has Rare made a survey where the vast majority of players responded and I didn't get the news ?
Has Rare made an announcement that a good portion of his playerbase is gone since the last patch ?
At first you're saying "most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on." and not a second later you say "watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating".
So most of the playerbase doesn't go on the forums and therefore isn't debating but just by watching the forums we can know how the playerbase is feeling because there's "more" debate than before ?
You're basically saying "no one is going to the forums but let's judge the state of the game by the forums anyway".
That just doesn't make any sense. You're actually contradicting yourself here.

I'm not trying to be rude here but you really seems to just say things that you think is true because of your experience alone.
Look, I get it, you're passionnate about the game, we all are. Don't think for a moment that you're the only one to be passionnate about Sea of Thieves here.
And, we all think at some point that we know best when really, we don't necessary. Don't put your personnal opinion and view as "facts" "indisputable truth" or, as you say it, "maths".
I'm not saying I know best, but at least I'm not here talking about maths and numbers to try to justify my point of view (wich it doesn't, especially without sources) when nobody, except Rare, knows about the actual numbers.

Cheers, mate !

@weststormborn Yeah you're wrong, it happens for sprinting, climbing, jumping, basically anything you do, you have to wait. As far as math. If it takes a second after you stop, and you're fighting 3 people. Let's say everyone stops at the same time, it's a second for each one right? Technically yes, but how long is it between getting a bullet to each one of them, vs them getting a bullet to you? Who has the advantage in time if everyone starts shooting at different times? The 3 people do, not the 1. The stop and move slow mechanic while waiting on a animation, gets you killed. It's forced game play. The better player should win, not the one who got the time advantage. That isn't the case right now. Perfect example, I killed 3 people just this morning, using the cutless, got on their ship, two respawned back in their ship, I start fighting one with the cutless, the other one stands back shoots me, I jump off the ship, the other one comes back, and they place themselves at two different places on the edge of the ship, and boom, I'm dead waiting on a gun animation to come up for a range shot. If you can't shoot, that's a personal problem, you shouldn't nerf people to almost a stand still to be able to play a game that should be in constant movement.

@fractal-pitch said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon. If you can't aim quickly that's your fault, and someone who can should not be punished for it, yet that is exactly what just happened last past.

1x1 you would have to use skill there. 1x2 No skill required anymore. 2 people are highly likely to kill 1 person because of how much they are forced to slow down to aim and shoot due to insane gun times. I don't even want to hear the force everyone to use a sword excuse, this game is supposed to be open to options, and changing things around took that away. Instead of balance they created a imbalance between ship sizes. So no, it's not balanced, people who used to like to pvp don't like it as much after this patch, and contrary to belief, most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. In a math sense, that last patch was a horrible idea.

I just would rather have my gun ready after I sprint or get off an object instead of waiting to stop sprinting, then the animation, then finally drawing the weapon up.

Edit: You change the movement in pvp too, watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating, don't think for one second this game is immune to a rapid decline in population

What "maths" are you talking about ?
Has Rare made a survey where the vast majority of players responded and I didn't get the news ?
Has Rare made an announcement that a good portion of his playerbase is gone since the last patch ?
At first you're saying "most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on." and not a second later you say "watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating".
So most of the playerbase doesn't go on the forums and therefore isn't debating but just by watching the forums we can know how the playerbase is feeling because there's "more" debate than before ?
You're basically saying "no one is going to the forums but let's judge the state of the game by the forums anyway".
That just doesn't make any sense. You're actually contradicting yourself here.

I'm not trying to be rude here but you really seems to just say things that you think is true because of your experience alone.
Look, I get it, you're passionnate about the game, we all are. Don't think for a moment that you're the only one to be passionnate about Sea of Thieves here.
And, we all think at some point that we know best when really, we don't necessary. Don't put your personnal opinion and view as "facts" "indisputable truth" or, as you say it, "maths".
I'm not saying I know best, but at least I'm not here talking about maths and numbers to try to justify my point of view (wich it doesn't, especially without sources) when nobody, except Rare, knows about the actual numbers.

Cheers, mate !

Math, in combat mechanics, that math, you know the entire game is built on math. Why is this so hard to see? The nerfs that were done, put in delay timers, delay time, is math.

Is it up to Rare to tell you that information, because they've never shared it. The only time they've shared numbers when they had free to play days, and during test. They still use those same statistics right now. Look at the %'s on the achievement board. They're never going to give you an active number of players in the game, let alone tell you a good portion of the game is gone.

What did I say that was a contradiction? Future tense, isn't present. If I imply that something is going to happen, it doesn't mean right this very moment it happened.

As far as debating, go into groups, and ask, watch twitch, look it up on youtube, you have like a million places to find out how alot of people feel.

I never said no one is going to the forums, ever, you yet again made up something to falsify your own agenda.

What sources do you need to do math? You want me to make a video of the scenario's for you? Use a stop watch in it? Since you can't seem to figure out exactly what I'm talking about?

So from saying things I didn't say to force your own point to actually thinking Rare is going to give you actual player numbers, all the way to you not getting the game runs off math and probability, what are you even getting at here?

@captainseahippo said in New PVP changes:

Hello everyone,
I am an Xbox Pirate Legend player and I want to talk about my opinion on the new patch of the double gunning. Before this patch came in players who were on PC did have an advantage on console users yes, but I still was able to go up against and kill most PC players. Again as a console user I couldn't double gun but that didnt stop me from winning most fights with my crew. All this change does is slow down battles that should have ended alot sooner. The gun animation is a little too long making these fights longer than they should be. Also with this most shots that should be hitting, never register. My main point with this is that it is an unnecessary change seeing as there will be servers with only Xbox Players or only PC Players coming the future as a choice. All we need is a break period from double gunning until the choice to be in an specific server comes out then add it back in again.
Thanks.

PC still rotates faster and have a DPI accuracy advantage with mouse or a thumb on a tiny stick. I can't rival PC in picking a barrel either. Plus I can't program an auto run as my standard forward key. The Opt-out solution is an indicator of A) plenty of players to split the base and B) No real solution to balance crossplay.
The Advantage will always be there. I'm glad you feel you're good enough to have a balance experience. Yes you can double gun on controller RT Y RT, you just can't macro it.

Longer fights give you a chance to heal and come back. The unprepared will always die young, and those who are keen to fight will get better. No balance change can substitute for experience, but please don't tie one arm behind my back from the beginning.
Rare wants the base to stay together as much as possible. I play with a Mix and I will deal with the balance issues, best I can, to play with my PC friends. I sail with my sons on a brig, 2 xbox and 1 pc, and I will not give that up.

I oppose going back to OG OP double guns. I'm all for PC players finally meeting their match on an even footing.

@captainseahippo

Sir the answer is NO.

I play with console and controller. Some of me crew use PC.
So with the upcoming update im NOT going xbox v xbox. I keep playing cross play. I like it that way.

I wouldnt like to see the double gunning return.
Its not like im against it but 1v1 head to head the double gun is a bit OP. Its beatable on tactics and gameplay.

U say put double gun back because when we get to choose our matchmaking it will be pc v pc and xbox v xbox but this aint true in all situations.

I see a lot of complaining about the length of time it takes to pull out a gun. I use the flint lock most of the time. It is and should always have been the best middle ground weapon. There is a very small delay in pulling this weapon out, but it is not that bad. Just need to make adjustments to how you play is all.

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

@fractal-pitch said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon. If you can't aim quickly that's your fault, and someone who can should not be punished for it, yet that is exactly what just happened last past.

1x1 you would have to use skill there. 1x2 No skill required anymore. 2 people are highly likely to kill 1 person because of how much they are forced to slow down to aim and shoot due to insane gun times. I don't even want to hear the force everyone to use a sword excuse, this game is supposed to be open to options, and changing things around took that away. Instead of balance they created a imbalance between ship sizes. So no, it's not balanced, people who used to like to pvp don't like it as much after this patch, and contrary to belief, most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. In a math sense, that last patch was a horrible idea.

I just would rather have my gun ready after I sprint or get off an object instead of waiting to stop sprinting, then the animation, then finally drawing the weapon up.

Edit: You change the movement in pvp too, watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating, don't think for one second this game is immune to a rapid decline in population

What "maths" are you talking about ?
Has Rare made a survey where the vast majority of players responded and I didn't get the news ?
Has Rare made an announcement that a good portion of his playerbase is gone since the last patch ?
At first you're saying "most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on." and not a second later you say "watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating".
So most of the playerbase doesn't go on the forums and therefore isn't debating but just by watching the forums we can know how the playerbase is feeling because there's "more" debate than before ?
You're basically saying "no one is going to the forums but let's judge the state of the game by the forums anyway".
That just doesn't make any sense. You're actually contradicting yourself here.

I'm not trying to be rude here but you really seems to just say things that you think is true because of your experience alone.
Look, I get it, you're passionnate about the game, we all are. Don't think for a moment that you're the only one to be passionnate about Sea of Thieves here.
And, we all think at some point that we know best when really, we don't necessary. Don't put your personnal opinion and view as "facts" "indisputable truth" or, as you say it, "maths".
I'm not saying I know best, but at least I'm not here talking about maths and numbers to try to justify my point of view (wich it doesn't, especially without sources) when nobody, except Rare, knows about the actual numbers.

Cheers, mate !

Math, in combat mechanics, that math, you know the entire game is built on math. Why is this so hard to see? The nerfs that were done, put in delay timers, delay time, is math.

Is it up to Rare to tell you that information, because they've never shared it. The only time they've shared numbers when they had free to play days, and during test. They still use those same statistics right now. Look at the %'s on the achievement board. They're never going to give you an active number of players in the game, let alone tell you a good portion of the game is gone.

What did I say that was a contradiction? Future tense, isn't present. If I imply that something is going to happen, it doesn't mean right this very moment it happened.

As far as debating, go into groups, and ask, watch twitch, look it up on youtube, you have like a million places to find out how alot of people feel.

I never said no one is going to the forums, ever, you yet again made up something to falsify your own agenda.

What sources do you need to do math? You want me to make a video of the scenario's for you? Use a stop watch in it? Since you can't seem to figure out exactly what I'm talking about?

So from saying things I didn't say to force your own point to actually thinking Rare is going to give you actual player numbers, all the way to you not getting the game runs off math and probability, what are you even getting at here?

What ? I think there's a lot of misunderstanding between what we're saying to each other.

No need to be patronizing. Thanks, I'm not stupid, I know that math is used in the game (and in every game) but
1 - if you're thinking about math when playing SoT, you really need to take a break and take some perspective. I say that in the most kind way possible.
2- you're saying numbers don't lie and then implies that these numbers shows various things about the state of the game.
I'm sorry but yeah, given my experience with the game since it came out and what I can see/read on twitch and other platforms, I won't just believe you and agree with you like that. You can't expect me to do that. As far as I know, it's just your opinion, not a fact. As you said, nobody has these numbers. Not even you.
There isn't any numbers out there to back what you're saying.
And maybe, just maybe, what you think is happening to the game isn't at all. Given what I see about the game, I really don't see that much players getting off the game. I see quite the opposite actually.
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying it's really a matter of perception. If all the people I play with thought the same as you, if all the streamers I watch thought the same as you, maybe my perception would be different.

There's actually nothing out there to 100% prove what you're saying. Even I could be wrong to think that this game is alive and well.
We don't know. It's just what you think is happening. I'm sorry again, I'm not trying to appear as rude, but you don't know better, I don't know better.

Again, this is something I won't say enough. I'm not trying to fight you here. I'm trying to understand and debate with you.

Cheers, mate !

And to be fair, i think I need to take a break from these forums because I have the feeling that I'm really using too much time and energy here.
I think I'm too passionate about the game right now so I'll use that IG instead of here :)
So don't necessary expect me to respond right away.

Cheers, mate !

@mc-leggers said in New PVP changes:

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon.

Actually yes the OP was asking for double gunning to return to fix the issue. This quote is from their post:

" My main point with this is that it is an unnecessary change seeing as there will be servers with only Xbox Players or only PC Players coming the future as a choice. All we need is a break period from double gunning until the choice to be in an specific server comes out then add it back in again.
Thanks."

So myself and others who posted here about not bringing back double gunning were responding to that. Im not sure if you meant no one on this thread or no one in general so forgive me if you wernt talking about this thread but clearly going by the OP post someone is asking for it to come back. I think a fix can be made hopefully if people are unhappy about the current patch but yeah bringing back double gunning isnt it.

@combatxkitty said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers said in New PVP changes:

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon.

Actually yes the OP was asking for double gunning to return to fix the issue. This quote is from their post:

" My main point with this is that it is an unnecessary change seeing as there will be servers with only Xbox Players or only PC Players coming the future as a choice. All we need is a break period from double gunning until the choice to be in an specific server comes out then add it back in again.
Thanks."

So myself and others who posted here about not bringing back double gunning were responding to that. Im not sure if you meant no one on this thread or no one in general so forgive me if you wernt talking about this thread but clearly going by the OP post someone is asking for it to come back. I think a fix can be made hopefully if people are unhappy about the current patch but yeah bringing back double gunning isnt it.

I was referring to in general, although I still look at double gunning as something you can avoid by simply moving, it's no different than getting a blinderbuster at point blank range. It's a consistency in every single game with guns in it, you move rapidly, you are less likely to get hit.

@fractal-pitch said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

@fractal-pitch said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon. If you can't aim quickly that's your fault, and someone who can should not be punished for it, yet that is exactly what just happened last past.

1x1 you would have to use skill there. 1x2 No skill required anymore. 2 people are highly likely to kill 1 person because of how much they are forced to slow down to aim and shoot due to insane gun times. I don't even want to hear the force everyone to use a sword excuse, this game is supposed to be open to options, and changing things around took that away. Instead of balance they created a imbalance between ship sizes. So no, it's not balanced, people who used to like to pvp don't like it as much after this patch, and contrary to belief, most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. In a math sense, that last patch was a horrible idea.

I just would rather have my gun ready after I sprint or get off an object instead of waiting to stop sprinting, then the animation, then finally drawing the weapon up.

Edit: You change the movement in pvp too, watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating, don't think for one second this game is immune to a rapid decline in population

What "maths" are you talking about ?
Has Rare made a survey where the vast majority of players responded and I didn't get the news ?
Has Rare made an announcement that a good portion of his playerbase is gone since the last patch ?
At first you're saying "most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on." and not a second later you say "watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating".
So most of the playerbase doesn't go on the forums and therefore isn't debating but just by watching the forums we can know how the playerbase is feeling because there's "more" debate than before ?
You're basically saying "no one is going to the forums but let's judge the state of the game by the forums anyway".
That just doesn't make any sense. You're actually contradicting yourself here.

I'm not trying to be rude here but you really seems to just say things that you think is true because of your experience alone.
Look, I get it, you're passionnate about the game, we all are. Don't think for a moment that you're the only one to be passionnate about Sea of Thieves here.
And, we all think at some point that we know best when really, we don't necessary. Don't put your personnal opinion and view as "facts" "indisputable truth" or, as you say it, "maths".
I'm not saying I know best, but at least I'm not here talking about maths and numbers to try to justify my point of view (wich it doesn't, especially without sources) when nobody, except Rare, knows about the actual numbers.

Cheers, mate !

Math, in combat mechanics, that math, you know the entire game is built on math. Why is this so hard to see? The nerfs that were done, put in delay timers, delay time, is math.

Is it up to Rare to tell you that information, because they've never shared it. The only time they've shared numbers when they had free to play days, and during test. They still use those same statistics right now. Look at the %'s on the achievement board. They're never going to give you an active number of players in the game, let alone tell you a good portion of the game is gone.

What did I say that was a contradiction? Future tense, isn't present. If I imply that something is going to happen, it doesn't mean right this very moment it happened.

As far as debating, go into groups, and ask, watch twitch, look it up on youtube, you have like a million places to find out how alot of people feel.

I never said no one is going to the forums, ever, you yet again made up something to falsify your own agenda.

What sources do you need to do math? You want me to make a video of the scenario's for you? Use a stop watch in it? Since you can't seem to figure out exactly what I'm talking about?

So from saying things I didn't say to force your own point to actually thinking Rare is going to give you actual player numbers, all the way to you not getting the game runs off math and probability, what are you even getting at here?

What ? I think there's a lot of misunderstanding between what we're saying to each other.

No need to be condescendant. Thanks, I'm not stupid, I know that math is used in the game (and in every game) but
1 - if you're thinking about math when playing SoT, you really need to take a break and take some perspective. I say that in the most kind way possible.
2- you're saying numbers don't lie and then implies that these numbers shows various things about the state of the game.
I'm sorry but yeah, given my experience with the game since it came out and what I can see/read on twitch and other platforms, I won't just believe you and agree with you like that. You can't expect me to do that. As far as I know, it's just your opinion, not a fact. As you said, nobody has these numbers. Not even you.
There isn't any numbers out there to back what you're saying.
And maybe, just maybe, what you think is happening to the game isn't at all. Given what I see about the game, I really don't see that much players getting off the game. I see quite the opposite actually.
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying it's really a matter of perception. If all the people I play with thought the same as you, if all the streamers I watch thought the same as you, maybe my perception would be different.

There's actually nothing out there to 100% prove what you're saying. Even I could be wrong to think that this game is alive and well.
We don't know. It's just what you think is happening. I'm sorry again, I'm not trying to appear as rude, but you don't know better, I don't know better.

Again, this is something I won't say enough. I'm not trying to fight you here. I'm trying to understand and debate with you.

Cheers, mate !

I'm not fighting anyone in here either. Words on a screen don't have to involve emotions. I'm simply saying there is a serious backlash on players right now. This is far from the first game I've seen go down the pot hole because of random mechanic changes due to other people not being on par. Read up, people want even move nerfs. It's ridiculous. Simply asking to get rid of the animation that stops you, then slows your movement down. Some people like sword fights some people don't. I think alot of people would have been square with change to the eye hip shot being as random as it is, that way double shots wouldn't be plaguing people. To literally slow the combat system down and let it cater to whoever has numbers over you, that's a bit much. Most everyone in this forum is for pve, I get it, but if the pvpers leave how much fun will you have when you're never contested for anything?

@captainseahippo The double gun insta-kill was not solely a PC vs Xbox issue. Even PC users fell victim to it, so making crossplay optional means nothing with regard to whether or not it should be fixed.

The added delay time takes some adjusting to, but that's the nature of any change. I have had no difficulty adapting... but then I rarely ran with two guns. However, whereas I used to just run a pistol/sword combo (occasionally sniper/sword), now I mix it up and actually use the blunderbuss when I'm on my ship solo slooping. It's an exciting time. This isn't - nor is it intended to be - a competitive twitch shooter.

@mc-leggers careful on that last sentence because almost all will say yes. Also I checked your numbers and there’s a big problem with them. You haven’t added variables like setting, surprise, skeleton spawning (if on land), Meg, Kraken, and/or skeleton ship (if at sea), choice of weapons, and position of all players. In these case depending on the variables the one player can have a better chance if skeletons attack the three and the one sneak attacks them.

But okay hypothetically if we were on the most even playing field of all time and there were no bananas and you’d had a pistol and cutlass for everyone, the one could still win. And it’s not by a small chance because it depends on how skillful and great at aiming the other pirate ship are. If the three suck at aiming and working together then if the one is competent he will win. The real answer is that there are too many variables to give a clear answer in every circumstance.

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

@fractal-pitch said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

@fractal-pitch said in New PVP changes:

@mc-leggers a dit dans New PVP changes :

No one is asking for double gunning. Asking to fix the ridiculous amount of time in animations to use your weapon. If you can't aim quickly that's your fault, and someone who can should not be punished for it, yet that is exactly what just happened last past.

1x1 you would have to use skill there. 1x2 No skill required anymore. 2 people are highly likely to kill 1 person because of how much they are forced to slow down to aim and shoot due to insane gun times. I don't even want to hear the force everyone to use a sword excuse, this game is supposed to be open to options, and changing things around took that away. Instead of balance they created a imbalance between ship sizes. So no, it's not balanced, people who used to like to pvp don't like it as much after this patch, and contrary to belief, most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on. Men lie, women lie, numbers don't. In a math sense, that last patch was a horrible idea.

I just would rather have my gun ready after I sprint or get off an object instead of waiting to stop sprinting, then the animation, then finally drawing the weapon up.

Edit: You change the movement in pvp too, watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating, don't think for one second this game is immune to a rapid decline in population

What "maths" are you talking about ?
Has Rare made a survey where the vast majority of players responded and I didn't get the news ?
Has Rare made an announcement that a good portion of his playerbase is gone since the last patch ?
At first you're saying "most of this game doesn't even know there is a forum to express what's going on." and not a second later you say "watch how many people quit this game, last patch has plenty of people debating".
So most of the playerbase doesn't go on the forums and therefore isn't debating but just by watching the forums we can know how the playerbase is feeling because there's "more" debate than before ?
You're basically saying "no one is going to the forums but let's judge the state of the game by the forums anyway".
That just doesn't make any sense. You're actually contradicting yourself here.

I'm not trying to be rude here but you really seems to just say things that you think is true because of your experience alone.
Look, I get it, you're passionnate about the game, we all are. Don't think for a moment that you're the only one to be passionnate about Sea of Thieves here.
And, we all think at some point that we know best when really, we don't necessary. Don't put your personnal opinion and view as "facts" "indisputable truth" or, as you say it, "maths".
I'm not saying I know best, but at least I'm not here talking about maths and numbers to try to justify my point of view (wich it doesn't, especially without sources) when nobody, except Rare, knows about the actual numbers.

Cheers, mate !

Math, in combat mechanics, that math, you know the entire game is built on math. Why is this so hard to see? The nerfs that were done, put in delay timers, delay time, is math.

Is it up to Rare to tell you that information, because they've never shared it. The only time they've shared numbers when they had free to play days, and during test. They still use those same statistics right now. Look at the %'s on the achievement board. They're never going to give you an active number of players in the game, let alone tell you a good portion of the game is gone.

What did I say that was a contradiction? Future tense, isn't present. If I imply that something is going to happen, it doesn't mean right this very moment it happened.

As far as debating, go into groups, and ask, watch twitch, look it up on youtube, you have like a million places to find out how alot of people feel.

I never said no one is going to the forums, ever, you yet again made up something to falsify your own agenda.

What sources do you need to do math? You want me to make a video of the scenario's for you? Use a stop watch in it? Since you can't seem to figure out exactly what I'm talking about?

So from saying things I didn't say to force your own point to actually thinking Rare is going to give you actual player numbers, all the way to you not getting the game runs off math and probability, what are you even getting at here?

What ? I think there's a lot of misunderstanding between what we're saying to each other.

No need to be condescendant. Thanks, I'm not stupid, I know that math is used in the game (and in every game) but
1 - if you're thinking about math when playing SoT, you really need to take a break and take some perspective. I say that in the most kind way possible.
2- you're saying numbers don't lie and then implies that these numbers shows various things about the state of the game.
I'm sorry but yeah, given my experience with the game since it came out and what I can see/read on twitch and other platforms, I won't just believe you and agree with you like that. You can't expect me to do that. As far as I know, it's just your opinion, not a fact. As you said, nobody has these numbers. Not even you.
There isn't any numbers out there to back what you're saying.
And maybe, just maybe, what you think is happening to the game isn't at all. Given what I see about the game, I really don't see that much players getting off the game. I see quite the opposite actually.
I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying it's really a matter of perception. If all the people I play with thought the same as you, if all the streamers I watch thought the same as you, maybe my perception would be different.

There's actually nothing out there to 100% prove what you're saying. Even I could be wrong to think that this game is alive and well.
We don't know. It's just what you think is happening. I'm sorry again, I'm not trying to appear as rude, but you don't know better, I don't know better.

Again, this is something I won't say enough. I'm not trying to fight you here. I'm trying to understand and debate with you.

Cheers, mate !

I'm not fighting anyone in here either. Words on a screen don't have to involve emotions. I'm simply saying there is a serious backlash on players right now. This is far from the first game I've seen go down the pot hole because of random mechanic changes due to other people not being on par. Read up, people want even move nerfs. It's ridiculous. Simply asking to get rid of the animation that stops you, then slows your movement down. Some people like sword fights some people don't. I think alot of people would have been square with change to the eye hip shot being as random as it is, that way double shots wouldn't be plaguing people. To literally slow the combat system down and let it cater to whoever has numbers over you, that's a bit much. Most everyone in this forum is for pve, I get it, but if the pvpers leave how much fun will you have when you're never contested for anything?

Well, let's not forget Rare is listening to people. They do not, IMO, "cater to casuals" or to "Pve crowd" (I'm not saying you said that, it's just something I read a lot these last days). These changes didn't happen because people aren't on par. Rare learned about a trend that happened to not be what they want for the game. They didn't cater. They just adressed what they've called an exploit with a huge bat, maybe they'll tweak the nerf later, maybe not. We'll see.

Let's also not forget that these changes are just the start of a much larger combat rework. This is a the first step, everything could change here.
They're listening to people but also to numbers they have. They have all the data they need to see what people are doing in the game. How they are reacting to the changes, what weapons do they use most, what voyages they do most, how many people are returning to the game, how many are leaving and much, much, MUCH more.
So don't worry, if a huge amount of player is leaving the game, they'll see it, they'll change some things. They won't let SoT die, the game hasn't stopped from growing since launch, they won't let it die right now.
But since neither you and I have these data, we should just not talk about numbers since we're both talking about our own perception, not actual data.

I think you overestimate the power of these forums. These forums are mainly here for suggestions but Rare aren't making their decisions solely about what people are saying to the forums. I think it really shows the lack of trust you have with Rare, more than anything.
But, then again, maybe I am the one who underestimate the power of these forums and maybe I'm the one wich shows overconfidence to Rare.
If they really make their decisions solely about what people are saying here, even though it's the worst thing to do for your game, then they're really stupid.

We'll see but for me, they've deceived me far less than other game developpers has done before. The only huge change I'm not on board with is the crossplay option being added. I've talked about it and I see now that I've made the same thing as you: I've talked about numbers I don't have.
I decided to trust Rare in the end. I'm not entirely okay with the option, but if they're saying that everything's okay and that nothing will change for us, I trust them.

@stew360 said in New PVP changes:

@itz-majman and thats a lie the gameplay was set in way back in the beta and weapons were meant to be use this way the gameplay was faster and more fun ...

then the " casual hardcore fans " have start noticing Summit1g and got mad at him , because of his popularity but also because of his high level of play .. and because he did the " double guns " Eye of reach pistol switch few times ... like very few times , this bs as blow out of proportion and they started to harass and flood the forums and the devs with request to get it out of the game ...

instead of fixing the problem wich was the EOR hip fire accuracy they have totally ruin the game and pretended it was their legitimate decision ... it was not they felt pressure to satified their low skills diehard fans ... who were whining for months ... they never spoke about these change for years and it came in the late months where it became popular due to summit ... but peoples were playing like this a year ago and it was fine with them ...

they simply did this due to forums warrioring , and devs influencing manoeuvre from the lowest skills player possible ...

This whole debacle wasnt even a real problem i died maybe once to " double gun " bs ... and i have been accuse of double gunning because i " one shotted " peoples ... USING A BLUNDERBUSS ... you reallise how dishonest and cultist this community as became .. this wasnt such a big issue and the only thing to fix it was to nerf hip fire from the EOR and make the switch animation 0.2 seconds instead of Instant not 1 seconds

and it would have fix the " insta doubleshot " from EOR and pistols

I agree both statements, no harm here, not even going to battle it anymore. I've seen these types in forums before, they go into denial, say they are better off now, and then it takes them till there is barely any population left to leave a dead game.

Side note: I literally challenge anyone in here to beat me and just 1 other person by yourself with this new combat system in a gun fight. I'll buy you an extra copy of the game if you can. Added bonus, no xbox players, and I'll also only invite my RSS friends who don't really play this at all, they are just familiar with shooting, because frankly I don't believe you people claiming victory over any decent multiple players at all.

Yep, Sea of Thieves is becoming Sea of Friends indeed. Why make the game have PvP at all if you are going to cater to 1 audience?
You have a pirate code, in a game with the word Thieves in it
You nerf Pvp mechanics beyond a simple double gun fix
I mean do people honestly think this game will stand the test of time listening to one side of the player base?
The guy above me said "I don't think you want the answer to that last question", when I asked about what would happen if this game lost PvP. I actually would like an answer to the question, because as of right now, when you become a Pirate Legend max out Athena etc.. There is nothing to do but PvP. You buy comestics, that's what you work for, cosmetics. That will get old fast. You're not raiding large content, you're not in persistent zones with people, you're not upgrading anything, you don't have in game jobs, you're not required to show up, there's nothing but titles and cosmetics at the end of the day. So, yeah, keep tampering with the PvP system, anyone who has ever been a part of a development team already knows how that kind of story ends. There is plenty of examples out there.

@psychomyth said in New PVP changes:

@xempero517x

Sounds like he’s trash at PvP with the new changes and he’s salty about it.

Personally, I’ll adapt to whatever changes they make and be fine. As will most others.

Wait wait..So someone sounds like they are trash at pvp because they don't like the changes, and this is the mental approach you guys take when people up and change mechanics around? You make a one liner, with absolutely no detail, and it's people like us that get called toxic, yet you call someone you'll probably never even fight trash in a forum? Wow...