Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal

@entspeak You can quote the devs all you like, that is what the devs envisioned, that doesn't make it the reality. The devs can tell you what they were aiming for with their system, and they can use player feedback to see how close they were to achieving that or how fulfilling it is for the player, that's the purpose of feedback.

I am not disagreeing that if I lose loot it's partly, or all my fault. I am not debating that! What I am saying is, the loss is too large at the moment! And yes, your solution is essentially go to an outpost as soon as you have loot (or valuable loot) as that's the only way to prevent loss. To be quite frank, that is a very dull mechanic, I think going to an outpost is fine but at the moment is really discourages any player to take any risks (such as staying at sea longer or engaging in PvP)

What we are saying is, loss is OK and a core aspect of the game, but at the moment, it is too great. It is not a satisfying experience or game for someone who is voyaging. I am not saying there is a FAULT in game design. The game design is really fun to be honest, I love the idea of having to defend my loot and it is thrilling running away from people. What I am saying is that the game design can be taken one step further, to keep this core experience, whilst not making it such a deflating experience when loot IS lost, and at the same time this will encourage people to make riskier decisions and not feel so bad if it goes badly, something which I strongly believe would greatly enhance everyone's game experience.

@entspeak That is exactly how this works! It is much more difficult to come up with a solution which will fix both PvE, PvPvE, and PvP in one swoop, but to come up with ideas which will enhance each aspect of the game is much more feasible! Plus, I want you to answer now. Please stop dodging. Comment on the positives we have said this will have on PvP.

I agree there is no guarantee PvP ideas will be adopted, but there is no guarantee this idea will be adopted, that is a very poor reason to be dismissive of it. If Rare ever did implement this idea they would do what they saw fit for their game to make sure all aspects of the game are viable and fulfilling, which is afterall their aim! Perhaps they'd wait to implement this till PvP has something ready to implement. Perhaps they'd add this idea, then in a subsequent patch one month later, add something to revitalise PvP. I have no idea. The point is, it's not relevant. AND for the umpteenth time, this will have many positive effects on PvP too, which you seem intent on ignoring.

@touchdown1504 said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

@angrycoconut16 I think this is where I differ in the entire discussion. I feel XP should be awarded for the tasks an individual completes. For three reasons.

1. It is XP. "Experience Points". Players should be rewarded for engaging in the wider game. Killing skeletons, Krakens, even other crews. It would encourage wider gameplay.

2. It fits thematically, although I don't care about that, a great number of people do. A pirate's Reputation should be based on accomplishments, not deliveries (although those can count some too).

3. Timing, as I mentioned to one of the local trolls (see above posting) would virtually guarantee that no one ever logs out without zero XP as long as they engaged with the game in some fashion. Which snowballs into all of the other bennies we covered dozens of times.

Anyhow, I do believe that is where I part ways with most in the discussion. I say as I did early on, it is a system that would take time to implement (guessing, because I am not a code monkey). Which is why, if you look WAY back in the thread) I said early on that as a foundation to change, and a band aid to stem the tide, Just award the reputation on "VC". But that part has been lost in discussion. Page 1, around the 7 or 8 post.

The thing is, I do completely agree with you. The reason I changed my mind is because someone pointed out that it would probably be far easier for Rare to program exp gains on 'voyage complete' and just add a bonus there. Your idea would make this EVEN MORE fulfilling for a PvE player, I don't think skeletons should award much if any exp to be quite honest, because I see them more as a pest then a threat... not worthy of exp, but skeleton captains could EACH award rep, and each chest successfully located could provide rep etc.. The kraken should award some... the storm (not too much so that everyone guns for the storm as a form of grinding, but maybe if a player is in the storm for at least a certain length of time, they are awarded some exp/rep for successfully braving the dangerous waters as it were). PLUS if this was the case it would finally function more as reputation!

The reason I changed my mind is purely because I'm happy with either solution (as I've never really had an issue with losing loot while completing a voyage, it's always been while at sea.. so the bonus on VC would make me happy) and to make it easier for Rare...

They could always implement VC bonus as a temporary measure and then depending on player feedback add more rep for the other bits and bobs which does make more cohesive sense. And yea this discussion sure has got long now xD

@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

The devs disagree.

And how do you know they disagree? Have you asked them personally what they feel given player feedback so far? If you have an official statement on their CURRENT opinion please do share, I'd genuinely be very interested in it. I know they've released information on solo play recently but I've not seen anything on this matter.

The whole idea of feedback is to let the devs know how the player experience is, ideas, how we think it could be improved etc. That is what we are doing. This is how no small number of players feel.

@nquarter said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

I have to completely disagree. I don't think a Reward should be given, when you haven't actually "finished" a Voyage by handing in the items you were sent to retrieve. It kind of contradicts the purpose of the Voyage... well what vague purpose they implemented within their Story anyway.

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with Risking a Reward for Success. It is much more rewarding [not talking about Rep, or Gold], but a sense of accomplishment of actually making it to the end without losing a single piece of Item, whether that be by running, or by standing your ground and fighting back.

Some people already run when they have Loot on board, and some fight back. This will not change regardless of if we get Rep for Completing a Voyage, or handing in a Voyage. It will still be the same, but there will just be that added "Risk" aspect to be able to receive something a little extra at the end by handing in the Items.

I play Solo quite a bit, because I enjoy that Risk of dealing with Duo Sloops, or Galleon's, and coming out on top. Yes sometimes I don't, and I do lose everything, but hey, that's just the nature of the Game. I just shrug it off and start another Voyage.

I think giving free Rep before the Items were handed in, would create another form for the Community to purely grind for Rep. They will do full Voyages, yet care not if they lose their Items, because the Risk of their Reward will be completely washed out to Sea... so to speak.

They would have a sense of carelessness, because they are given what they desire, which is Rep, surprising enough, is what the Progression in SoT is all about.

The Game needs to make ways to allow players to WANT to play the Game correctly, by doing Voyages, succeeding in the Voyages, and earning their Rewards and Bonus afterwards. This will be the incentive Players need.

We are not asking for a full reward, most of the reward should still come from an outpost we completely agree. The vast majority of players do NOT turn and fight when they have loot I can assure you :P

What we are suggesting is a BONUS on voyage complete. This will give players more encouragement to make riskier game decisions as if it goes badly, they won't walk away with 0. I agree with the feeling of accomplishment, I also feel great when I successfully run from an enemy, and it is so thrilling to be chased, and naval combat is really fun. These experiences can all be retained with our suggestion, as most of the reward will STILL come from handing in loot at an outpost. It's just if a player is bested, or makes a decision which results in their demise, they don't have such a crippling loss and waste a significant amount of their time, as they have still gained SOME exp.

You can't say the risk of their reward will be washed out to sea, that depends on quantity. If for instance you were given 5% of you reputation up front and your loot was worth 95% would you not care about your loot? I don't think so, I'm sure you'd want to cash in and get that 95%. If you were given 80% up front, and your loot was worth 20% would you care? Personally I wouldn't so much. I do agree it is an important thing to consider, but that's why quantity is so important. It is very feasible to implement this idea whilst keeping the value and risk element in the game however. This is the exact reason I support the incentive of this thread while being 100% against the OP suggestion of ALL loot on voyage complete, you are correct, that removes far too much risk from the game.

Also, be careful when you say 'play the game correctly', the devs specifically want players to play the game how they want. I do agree that all players should be encouraged to participate in the 'full game experience' (PvPvE) but Rare want to support people who prefer PvP or prefer PvE too. This suggestion will primarily encourage PvE, and healthy PvPvE interactions. (If people have received some rep and know they won't walk away with 0 they are more likely to be up for PvP combat, which is healthy for the game)

@daveyjay1984 I would love a PvP faction or something to encourage healthy PvP, and something for people who primarily prefer PvP... I think having too many reputation systems could be detrimental to the game but I do like the idea of something PvP related, it's ridiculous that we don't have a system dedicated to PvP in my opinion.

Exp - it also about 'experience' in the game, whether it leads to something or not. Killing enemies is also experience, especially larger more significant bosses. Successfully locating chests using your map and compass is experience, and you will get better over time as you practise, same with riddles. It all culminates as progress towards pirate legend, and experience at the game.

Rep - I do agree with you, but are you telling me killing the kraken wouldn't earn you rep with all factions? 'woah you defeated the kraken! you are awesome, now I trust you to do more quests for me' kinda thing, or even ONE faction? (perhaps curse faction would be most relevant) Also if you defeated a pirate who has a higher reputation, why would they not respect that? The entire game is about sea of thieves right? So why would they not respect someone who can hold their own on the ocean, they really ought to respect that as it means you have more chance of coming back with the item they want, even if someone attacks you!

This is why I'm saying rep isn't fit for purpose currently :P There are too many holes which don't make sense..

@skyewauker That's exactly it. There is NOTHING wrong with loss, hell you lose games sometimes, and usually it takes a lot to make me angry if I find a game fun! I'm happy to lose. But the potential for 100% loss is just so frustrating to most people! That's why you see rage threads, that's why people are leaving, that's why people are discouraged to PvP or do make interesting plays, because the risk is soo great if it goes badly!

They changed the auto aim of skeleton cannons this patch :) That's good it was a bit too strong. Hopefully they'll do the same with the skeleton gunners at some point :) Rare do seem to be paying attention, I just truly hope they resolve this issue too as this is a big one.

@skyewauker Exactly. Let us not forget that this is a casual game, aimed at casual players, and marketed to anyone 12+. It should be a FUN experience. Losing is a part of any game but the current risk of loss discourages other fun avenues for play, and is excessively rage/anger/frustration/sadness inducing.

@doctor-dissaray A complete non-issue. If Rare are concerned about this, reduce rep gain from outposts (and make sure the bonus is below this) perhaps collectively it will equal the current outpost hand in gain. Alternatively just increase the rep required for each faction to reach 50. There are simple ways around this, the grind can be adjusted around this. I have no issue with the grind.

Thanks for the support :)

@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

Their statements have been quoted in this thread. You have chosen to ignore them.

You can't just take a quote and assume that Rare STILL hold that opinion! The game was released March 20th, if their quote was before that, it is not a statement of what they currently think based on what they have learnt and the feedback they have obtained from players in the previous 6 weeks or so. If you have a statement which is CURRENT, please do share it. If it's a copy of paste from something a few months ago, then it is only slightly relevant. It states their thoughts THEN which is not based on the feedback they have received since the game was launched and how a player feels about the CURRENT experience offered when they play the game. Feedback is not just about suggesting new items and new ideas, it is also about feeding back on how a player views current mechanics and systems in the game.

By all means they may look at this thread and think 'nope don't care, sorry we like what the game is now, this is what we aimed for and this is what we hoped to achieve', if you have something like that please do share it and I will stop debating this. Otherwise, previous quotes only have a limited worth. We have raised this issue, at the very least we need an official CURRENT statement from Rare if they want to ignore this issue, because many players feel this way (including all of the new faces which are appearing in support of this suggestion).

Oh and your previous reply to @TouchDown1504 is utter rubbish. This suggestion is NOT compromising game design and devs intentions, because at the very core of this idea we do NOT want to affect the paranoia and risk associated with having loot on the open ocean. If implemented properly this idea will NOT compromise that. What do you not understand about that? You will STILL need to go to an outpost to get most of your reward.

@touchdown1504 With you on that, I'd be more motivated for sure. I'm literally so against PvP at the moment because 1) there is no real incentive (but this is another thread) but mainly 2) I voyage a lot and if I have loot I don't want to go anywhere near PvP! having said that I have done it a handful of times and it is so fun! If this change was implemented I'd be so more up for PvP.

The number of players who have left.. I'm sure this idea would help retain a larger player base personally, and you are right we all agree it is just unfulfilling and not fun the current risk and feeling of loss is just too steep. Lets see what happens. I'm going to continue debating until we get an official statement from Rare on the matter anyhow.

@lotrmith said in Give us our XP for finishing a voyage, not turning in the chest/soul/animal:

• We've made decisions where all quest rewards are physical, and all of that stuff is never truly yours until you get back to the outpost. We believe in the paranoia of having that stuff on the ship because you know that someone can come and take it.

Literally everyone in this thread arguing for and against the new rewards right now is aware of this sentiment and agrees with it. We don't want to break the system. We just want to be more encouraged to engage in all the games systems, actually finishing voyages, reasons to PvP, fighting skeletons that aren't captains, etc, without it being a completely all or nothing endevor. The Division had big complaints with the dark zone and had to do major overhauls, and it's not even the only option to play and gain loot. Pve only servers are a really bad idea, and would kill the game completely, so we're just looking for a good middle ground. I think the belief that adding rep reward on VC would encourage a more varied playstyle is a fair one, and hasnt really been explored by any detractors.