How do we improve the new player experience?

@lordqulex
What you bring up, I believe, is more of a symptom, not a cause. The larger issue isn't "Bad player experience" so much as it is "dull player experience."

The player isn't really introduced to the game. As I said, they are introduced to the mechanics of the game, and then shoved out the door. They follow the prompts to get a little mission from one of the 3 factions, and try to get on with it barely able to walk. When someone rolls up on them and sinks them, it's no wonder that it's a bad experience. They don't know what they are doing, the person rolling up doesn't know that they are new, and it ends badly. In addition, if they are a solo slooper, they are missing out on the social aspect, which is one of the key facets of the game.

The more I think on it, the more I think the game needs a Mentor/Swabbie program.

I suggest the following: A player, during launch, has the ability to flag themselves as a mentor. Doing so, leaves one slot on their crew "open" to be filled by a random person with the Swabbie flag applied to them. If a mentor has a swabbie with them, they get bonus loot and xp. In exchange, the mentor is hopefully going to give the new player a better introduction to the game than leaving them blind would be. The game, after maiden's voyage would kick them back to the start screen, and ENCOURAGE them to join as a swabbie (toggle).

Pairing new players with experienced players willing to show them the ropes (a literal navy slang term), would greatly improve the new player experience.

I've suggested this before, but I'll expand upon it a bit here.

In the Maiden Voyage, when you set sail from Old Sailor's Isle after doing all the Pirate Lord's tasks and repairing your ship, you're effectively on a "guided path" until you emerge into the Sea of Thieves. Other than being very cool visually, the quick fetch quest followed by the mast repair and cinematic sailing sequence serves virtually no purpose beyond maybe keybind familiarity.

Why not build out that path? Add in some small/large islands that can be explored. Add in some riddles, some X Marks the spots, a cargo delivery...Add in some PvE threats - both land and sea - to get you somewhat acclimated to what you're about to experience in the Sea of Thieves.

Simulate a LOSS. Simulate LOSING the loot you just found. Simulate the feelings and emotions you're going to experience on the seas.

THAT is the tutorial that this game needs.

@lordqulex said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@scheneighnay said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@lordqulex
What you bring up, I believe, is more of a symptom, not a cause. The larger issue isn't "Bad player experience" so much as it is "dull player experience."

The player isn't really introduced to the game. As I said, they are introduced to the mechanics of the game, and then shoved out the door. They follow the prompts to get a little mission from one of the 3 factions, and try to get on with it barely able to walk. When someone rolls up on them and sinks them, it's no wonder that it's a bad experience. They don't know what they are doing, the person rolling up doesn't know that they are new, and it ends badly. In addition, if they are a solo slooper, they are missing out on the social aspect, which is one of the key facets of the game.

The more I think on it, the more I think the game needs a Mentor/Swabbie program.

I suggest the following: A player, during launch, has the ability to flag themselves as a mentor. Doing so, leaves one slot on their crew "open" to be filled by a random person with the Swabbie flag applied to them. If a mentor has a swabbie with them, they get bonus loot and xp. In exchange, the mentor is hopefully going to give the new player a better introduction to the game than leaving them blind would be. The game, after maiden's voyage would kick them back to the start screen, and ENCOURAGE them to join as a swabbie (toggle).

Pairing new players with experienced players willing to show them the ropes (a literal navy slang term), would greatly improve the new player experience.

Which brings us back to the general request that the game needs a real group finder.

What's stopping me from signing up to be a mentor and just fire/blunder bombing the swabbie into oblivion?

There would need to be a "rate my mentor" feature along with that and if you get three strikes your out.

What stops me from creating infinite free MSFT accounts and just giving every mentor I have a strike?

This type of thing? I would argue "net gain" ends up defeating "sometimes, jerks", in other words "Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good."

What I mean by that is this: Every situation is open to the potential that someone will abuse it. On the whole, if it improves the new player experience, and keeps MORE new players than the jerks run off, then it's a win. It absolutely sucks for those few that get hit by a troll, but that issue can be solved if it becomes more of a problem. This is the same type of harassment that is already bannable through toxic behavior, so I'm less concerned about it.

@sweetsandman said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

I've suggested this before, but I'll expand upon it a bit here.

In the Maiden Voyage, when you set sail from Old Sailor's Isle after doing all the Pirate Lord's tasks and repairing your ship, you're effectively on a "guided path" until you emerge into the Sea of Thieves. Other than being very cool visually, the quick fetch quest followed by the mast repair and cinematic sailing sequence serves virtually no purpose beyond maybe keybind familiarity.

Why not build out that path? Add in some small/large islands that can be explored. Add in some riddles, some X Marks the spots, a cargo delivery...Add in some PvE threats - both land and sea - to get you somewhat acclimated to what you're about to experience in the Sea of Thieves.

Simulate a LOSS. Simulate LOSING the loot you just found. Simulate the feelings and emotions you're going to experience on the seas.

THAT is the tutorial that this game needs.

I think it still misses the mark. I think ANY solo-introduction, eventually misses the mark. Your tutorial is an extension of "Teaches the mechanics, not the game." The problem is that this game is (primarily) social and cooperative. Solo tutorials end up missing that aspect entirely, and as such players end up floundering.

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@lordqulex
What you bring up, I believe, is more of a symptom, not a cause. The larger issue isn't "Bad player experience" so much as it is "dull player experience."

The player isn't really introduced to the game. As I said, they are introduced to the mechanics of the game, and then shoved out the door. They follow the prompts to get a little mission from one of the 3 factions, and try to get on with it barely able to walk. When someone rolls up on them and sinks them, it's no wonder that it's a bad experience. They don't know what they are doing, the person rolling up doesn't know that they are new, and it ends badly. In addition, if they are a solo slooper, they are missing out on the social aspect, which is one of the key facets of the game.

The more I think on it, the more I think the game needs a Mentor/Swabbie program.

I suggest the following: A player, during launch, has the ability to flag themselves as a mentor. Doing so, leaves one slot on their crew "open" to be filled by a random person with the Swabbie flag applied to them. If a mentor has a swabbie with them, they get bonus loot and xp. In exchange, the mentor is hopefully going to give the new player a better introduction to the game than leaving them blind would be. The game, after maiden's voyage would kick them back to the start screen, and ENCOURAGE them to join as a swabbie (toggle).

Pairing new players with experienced players willing to show them the ropes (a literal navy slang term), would greatly improve the new player experience.

Those Mentors have to be vetted though - they need to be actually knowledgeable, have some skills in training. There are people who might consider themself pirates with sufficient knowledge and skills but are misinformed.

Perhaps there will be PvE Alliance server recruiters among them.

They need to be able to communicate with the Swabbie in their preferred mike or text or discord, whatever and also in a language they both speak.

A bonus to loot and xp will incentive people being a mentor for an alt-account of a friend (or themself).

I see more in linking to Rare approved instruction videos from content creators if people haven't looked for game videos already.

@lem0n-curry
If I have to watch a video to be able to be able to play a game, it's a game I probably won't be playing. It sends the wrong message. It says "This game is so complicated, you have to take a class to learn it."

It's like trying to learn a sport, say basketball, hockey, soccer (football). You have taken a class. That class has taught you to move with the item (dribble, kick, hit with stick), it has taught you how to score, (shoot a basket, aim for goal), it has even taught you, physically, how to pass the item to another player. The thing is, it hasn't taught you how to play any of those sports, it's merely taught you the mechanics of them. Sure, you know how to mechanically pass the ball to another player, but not when, or why. You've been taught to shoot a basket, but not when to take the shot, when to pass so someone else can take the shot, etc.

Our tutorial is the same. The only way to learn is to do, and the best way to do that is to put you in with people willing to help.

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

I think it still misses the mark. I think ANY solo-introduction, eventually misses the mark. Your tutorial is an extension of "Teaches the mechanics, not the game." The problem is that this game is (primarily) social and cooperative. Solo tutorials end up missing that aspect entirely, and as such players end up floundering.

There's no easy way to create a tutorial that will expose the player to the social aspect of the game and/or any cooperation/betrayal they may encounter on the seas.

That's something that would have to be done IN the sandbox.

Now, I have made a proposal (a while back) that would sort of address that hole within the sandbox. Check it out here.

It's a touch rough around the edges, but I think something like that would be the only way you'd realistically get the acclimation that you describe and have it done in a regimented and approved way.

@sweetsandman

I know. I don't think "Better Tutorial" is the solution. The tutorial as it exists is fine, but its just one part of the new player experience. The new player experience extends beyond the first session or two.

Looking at your idea, I think you've overthought it. To go back to learning a sport, your idea is to put everyone who wants to learn the sport through a full-blown, in-depth, training program for 6 weeks. I believe what you need is people in pick-up games, willing to be patient, have a fun game, and make sure you get included. You don't need to prevent everyone from having a bad experience, you just need enough people to have good ones.

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@sweetsandman

I know. I don't think "Better Tutorial" is the solution. The tutorial as it exists is fine, but its just one part of the new player experience. The new player experience extends beyond the first session or two.

Looking at your idea, I think you've overthought it. To go back to learning a sport, your idea is to put everyone who wants to learn the sport through a full-blown, in-depth, training program for 6 weeks.

Agree that my proposal was very in depth and would require a lot of commitments from Rare and "tour guide" participants.

I believe what you need is people in pick-up games, willing to be patient, have a fun game, and make sure you get included. You don't need to prevent everyone from having a bad experience, you just need enough people to have good ones.

What you're describing here is OPEN CREW...Unfortunately, open crew has no boundaries...it has no rules (outside of TOS/pirate code)...it doesn't even have any requirements for communication.

The only thing I could think would be to maybe have a "new player" open crew option that would pair up the new player with a crew of other players that are committing to mentor. That's a big ask from the general community if we're being honest with ourselves...which is why my proposal was so in-depth and thorough.

@sweetsandman said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@sweetsandman

I know. I don't think "Better Tutorial" is the solution. The tutorial as it exists is fine, but its just one part of the new player experience. The new player experience extends beyond the first session or two.

Looking at your idea, I think you've overthought it. To go back to learning a sport, your idea is to put everyone who wants to learn the sport through a full-blown, in-depth, training program for 6 weeks.

Agree that my proposal was very in depth and would require a lot of commitments from Rare and "tour guide" participants.

I believe what you need is people in pick-up games, willing to be patient, have a fun game, and make sure you get included. You don't need to prevent everyone from having a bad experience, you just need enough people to have good ones.

What you're describing here is OPEN CREW...Unfortunately, open crew has no boundaries...it has no rules (outside of TOS/pirate code)...it doesn't even have any requirements for communication.

The only thing I could think would be to maybe have a "new player" open crew option that would pair up the new player with a crew of other players that are committing to mentor. That's a big ask from the general community if we're being honest with ourselves...which is why my proposal was so in-depth and thorough.

I put this in an earlier post further up:

The more I think on it, the more I think the game needs a Mentor/Swabbie program.

I suggest the following: A player, during launch, has the ability to flag themselves as a mentor. Doing so, leaves one slot on their crew "open" (even on a closed crew) to be filled by a random person with the Swabbie flag applied to them. If a mentor has a swabbie with them, they get bonus loot and xp. In exchange, the mentor is hopefully going to give the new player a better introduction to the game than leaving them blind would be. The game, after maiden's voyage would kick them back to the start screen, and ENCOURAGE them to join as a swabbie (toggle).

Pairing new players with experienced players willing to show them the ropes (a literal navy slang term), would greatly improve the new player experience.

To be fair, without breaking status qou, they just need to polish the game a little bit more, so if you kill or die, you don't question hit reg or server or whatever, but you know exactly what happened. That being said, this game just needs more expansions and new content, more publicity. The rest will be survival of the fittest.

Look at Dota 2, 500k plus players daily, 1.3 million all time peak. After playing league of legends a bit, thought I will try this one out few years back, because what could go wrong, I know the mechanics etc...oh..boy... I could not wait for the game to finish as I was being toyed with and stomped by the enemy team...Could not help it if I wanted to. Should they change the game for me? No, they are doing just fine.

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

I put this in an earlier post further up:

The more I think on it, the more I think the game needs a Mentor/Swabbie program.

I suggest the following: A player, during launch, has the ability to flag themselves as a mentor. Doing so, leaves one slot on their crew "open" (even on a closed crew) to be filled by a random person with the Swabbie flag applied to them. If a mentor has a swabbie with them, they get bonus loot and xp. In exchange, the mentor is hopefully going to give the new player a better introduction to the game than leaving them blind would be. The game, after maiden's voyage would kick them back to the start screen, and ENCOURAGE them to join as a swabbie (toggle).

Pairing new players with experienced players willing to show them the ropes (a literal navy slang term), would greatly improve the new player experience.

I don't want to sound negative...but you're putting a BIG ask on the community and hoping that these "swabbies" don't get a bad experience from less than capable mentors.

That's why my idea was so rigorous. It would strive to ensure a positive experience.

Have you ever played on open crew? Even most of the veterans that hop into open crew are definitely not the sort of folks that I would want mentoring new players.

Experience =/= Being a good Mentor

There has to be some way to make sure that the mentors are of the highest quality if you want it to be a successful mechanic.

@sweetsandman said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

I put this in an earlier post further up:

The more I think on it, the more I think the game needs a Mentor/Swabbie program.

I suggest the following: A player, during launch, has the ability to flag themselves as a mentor. Doing so, leaves one slot on their crew "open" (even on a closed crew) to be filled by a random person with the Swabbie flag applied to them. If a mentor has a swabbie with them, they get bonus loot and xp. In exchange, the mentor is hopefully going to give the new player a better introduction to the game than leaving them blind would be. The game, after maiden's voyage would kick them back to the start screen, and ENCOURAGE them to join as a swabbie (toggle).

Pairing new players with experienced players willing to show them the ropes (a literal navy slang term), would greatly improve the new player experience.

I don't want to sound negative...but you're putting a BIG ask on the community and hoping that these "swabbies" don't get a bad experience from less than capable mentors.

That's why my idea was so rigorous. It would strive to ensure a positive experience.

Have you ever played on open crew? Even most of the veterans that hop into open crew are definitely not the sort of folks that I would want mentoring new players.

Experience =/= Being a good Mentor

There has to be some way to make sure that the mentors are of the highest quality if you want it to be a successful mechanic.

I don't think it's as big an ask as you may think. Most people are not trolls, and as mentor would be voluntary, those willing to volunteer are more likely to be helpful than not. On the flip side, mentors don't need to be perfect, they need to be willing and patient.

The key here is that the mentor isn't really there to "teach" the game, they are there to essentially drag a swabbie along on adventures and end up creating a more fun experience for them.

I'll toss out this example:
You decide to start up a galleon. On the open/closed crew screen there's a check box "Join as a mentor?" It remains in "invite friend" screen. As long as you (or one of the crew players) are there, the bottom box is greyed out. You invite your two friends, and have a plan to run FoTD. You guys join, and boom, you now have a crew of 4. You, two friends, and Swabbie! You guys welcome them, and now drag this person along on the adventure. As this is a social game, you are likely to be getting to know this person, talking to them, answering questions, etc. Run FoTD, gain $ (giving him a decent start, getting him some levels in something, etc.). More importantly, as you guys go through this, the swabbie is going to suck....but they are playing, having fun, and most importantly LEARNING THROUGH DOING. What's really required of the mentor is to be patient, be social, be friendly, and play. The rest of the game is going to come as they learn.

The contrast to this is the new player, coming in, solo slooping, feeling lost, and stumbling around, getting a voyage and MAYBE getting it done....roughly. Then having a ship roll up on them and stomp them as they don't know the first thing about trying to fight on their own.

I think there are a couple things that can be done. First of all something like a practice mode i think would be the best scenario. Similiar to how League of Legends has practice tool. The maiden voyage teaches you only the bare minimum and that puts new players at a bigger disadvantage than they already are. Even game prompts that tell you to raise sails to stop instead of anchoring could be a positive change. Aside from that i think as far as the PvP aspect of the game goes if they made SBMM work in hourglass, it could be a really nice way for players to practice core mechanics of naval and regular combat while getting some rewards at the same time.

They could also add like an extended tutorial, where after you complete the Maiden voyage you have to complete certain tasks like buying the merchant supplies, looting some barrels with a storage and even spawning a skeleton ship when you sail for the first time where many things about naval combat can be explained. Then you go to an island and a skeleton captain appears and the game teaches you how to block, sword jump and hop, explain the difference between all available guns, etc.

@gosva5434
The new player experience problem isn't a tutorial issue. The tutorial itself is fine for it's intended purpose. It tells you, mechanically, how to interact with the game world. This is a social game, where frequently, you and a crew of other people go out and make your own fun by interacting with the tools that are there. The new player experience problem, (one that is hard to solve) is that it's frequently a single person, on a sloop, trying to figure out what to do. I know many people are solo sloopers, but that is not an accurate representation of what the game is, and definitely not how we want to introduce people to the game.

IMO one big improvement would be fixing open crews. I've tried open crews multiple times and 99% of time it ends up in 2 minutes due to people not knowing what they want to do, even if they can decide what to do they just instantly quit anyway, or then it's a troll lobby.

There should be ways to find crews with same agenda as you. Even something basic like option to join

• Tall tales
• Voyages / Adventure
• Hourglass / PVP

Maybe add some optional language preferences and voice chat requirement as well.

At least new players would find suitable crews that get something done and learn with them.

@tybald The tutorial misses quite a few core mechanics needed to play this game whether you are solo or playing with a full crew. Hence why i think a bit more information would be welcome to new players. As far as solo slooping Rare has made quite a few improvements, especially this season, making the game even more accessible to those people. I agree that it might not be enough but is a big step towards the right direction. Maybe some open crew filters would help get players to play with others more easily (without having to deal with the randomness that occurs on open crews). However whether or not someone chooses to play solo isn't something that can be 'fixed' since it is entirely up to the person. Some people are ok playing with strangers, while others aren't. Also some people do not have friends who play SoT or prefer to play most games solo anyway.

@gosva5434 said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@tybald The tutorial misses quite a few core mechanics needed to play this game whether you are solo or playing with a full crew. Hence why i think a bit more information would be welcome to new players. As far as solo slooping Rare has made quite a few improvements, especially this season, making the game even more accessible to those people. I agree that it might not be enough but is a big step towards the right direction. Maybe some open crew filters would help get players to play with others more easily (without having to deal with the randomness that occurs on open crews). However whether or not someone chooses to play solo isn't something that can be 'fixed' since it is entirely up to the person. Some people are ok playing with strangers, while others aren't. Also some people do not have friends who play SoT or prefer to play most games solo anyway.

You are right. You can't stop people from solo slooping, and they HAVE made it better, but that's not what I'm getting at. The new player experience, flowing from "maiden voyage" is to essentially PUT THEM in a solo sloop, and say "Solo sloop is the default way to play." I think that message is the wrong one to send. It is A way to play, but it's not the "envisioned" way to play. That's the key. The new player experience should introduce players to the vision of the game, and nudging them into a solo sloop....misses the mark. It would be better to move them to an open crew galley/brig, or to fade them to black, and put them to the start screen and explain that the new player would gain the most by playing with others, and only brave the seas alone when they feel comfortable enough to do so.

@phantaxus said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

I like @Tybald 's idea. We have mentored many a new pirate. It would be nice to get paid for it.

Exactly!

And providing a "safe" environment for them to learn, with patience, and fun isn't a difficult thing to do. You don't have to "teach them." You have to play with them. They'll learn as you go, they'll ask questions, etc.

"Safe" means welcoming, and patient. Understanding that they don't know what they are doing, and not being salty for it, even if that lack of skill and knowledge costs the loss of the ship. (It, however, does not mean you have to be tolerant of bafoonery)

@tybald
Ok i can see your point. You are quite right, however this is quite a difficult thing to accomplish and i have not seen it in any game i have played. While it is a good idea i think it is a bit too utopian. Do not get me wrong what you are suggesting would be perfect for the game. However i believe player interaction is more of a community issue. Rare can give us all the options in the world yet there is no true way to filter whether or not people who come together in this imaginary world are gonna have fun.

Even in mmos which are games that also promote a lot of player interaction (mainly through guilds) there aren't many options for people to come together apart from dungeon finders,etc (which are kinda similiar to open crew). If you want to find people to play with the best option is always to have a real life friend join you or search through outside game sources like discord, reddit, forums to find people. And even then there isn't a guarantee that you will enjoy playing together. SoT being a game where both pve and pvp coexist in the same sandbox and skill plays a big part as well makes it even harder for what you are suggesting to happen. Just take a look at the SoT discord and you will see that most players when looking for crews ask for at least 500 hours played.

To conclude while i think you have a pretty good idea and you make some really great points, the task at hand seems pretty unrealistic imo.

@gosva5434 said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

@tybald
Ok i can see your point. You are quite right, however this is quite a difficult thing to accomplish and i have not seen it in any game i have played. While it is a good idea i think it is a bit too utopian. Do not get me wrong what you are suggesting would be perfect for the game. However i believe player interaction is more of a community issue. Rare can give us all the options in the world yet there is no true way to filter whether or not people who come together in this imaginary world are gonna have fun.

Even in mmos which are games that also promote a lot of player interaction (mainly through guilds) there aren't many options for people to come together apart from dungeon finders,etc (which are kinda similiar to open crew). If you want to find people to play with the best option is always to have a real life friend join you or search through outside game sources like discord, reddit, forums to find people. And even then there isn't a guarantee that you will enjoy playing together. SoT being a game where both pve and pvp coexist in the same sandbox and skill plays a big part as well makes it even harder for what you are suggesting to happen. Just take a look at the SoT discord and you will see that most players when looking for crews ask for at least 500 hours played.

To conclude while i think you have a pretty good idea and you make some really great points, the task at hand seems pretty unrealistic imo.

I don't believe it to be as unrealistic, or as hard, as you may think. I've seen some people try to overcomplicate the issue, at it's heart I think what needs to be done is to match new people who want a safe environment with people who are willing to provide it. The rest should flow naturally. Will it be perfect? No. Will there be some people who are abusive? Yes. But, do I think that those bad experiences will outweigh the benefit? Not at all, and thats why I say move forward with it.

@tybald said in How do we improve the new player experience?:

I don't think it's as big an ask as you may think. Most people are not trolls, and as mentor would be voluntary, those willing to volunteer are more likely to be helpful than not. On the flip side, mentors don't need to be perfect, they need to be willing and patient.

The key here is that the mentor isn't really there to "teach" the game, they are there to essentially drag a swabbie along on adventures and end up creating a more fun experience for them.

How is that "experience" going to be ensured to be as positive as possible? As useful as possible? I don't know how much time you've spent on Open Crew, but even a few quick samples will prove that even the veterans that you encounter in there are definitely not people you'd want "mentoring" in almost any capacity. A bad experience with a veteran is just as (if not more) discouraging for a new player.

I'll toss out this example:
You decide to start up a galleon. On the open/closed crew screen there's a check box "Join as a mentor?" It remains in "invite friend" screen. As long as you (or one of the crew players) are there, the bottom box is greyed out. You invite your two friends, and have a plan to run FoTD. You guys join, and boom, you now have a crew of 4. You, two friends, and Swabbie! You guys welcome them, and now drag this person along on the adventure. As this is a social game, you are likely to be getting to know this person, talking to them, answering questions, etc. Run FoTD, gain $ (giving him a decent start, getting him some levels in something, etc.). More importantly, as you guys go through this, the swabbie is going to suck....but they are playing, having fun, and most importantly LEARNING THROUGH DOING. What's really required of the mentor is to be patient, be social, be friendly, and play. The rest of the game is going to come as they learn.

Again, you're putting a lot of faith in the broader community. What are the "requirements" for clicking this hypothetical "Join as a Mentor" button?

The intention is good. The reality is far off without a thorough vetting process.

Not sure what your life/work experience is...but I can think of countless examples of people who have worked at an establishment for a long time and know what they're doing, but are certainly not the kind of people you'd want a new person to shadow let alone be fully mentored by.