Seriously, if you guys think you're at such a disadvantage with a controller, why not fix that with a mouse and keyboard?
Another crossplay discussion
@belyaevfox said in Another crossplay discussion:
Your whole post is concerned with controllers. That's not even the biggest issue. The PC version of the game runs much more smoothly, has much shorter loading times (important for respawns), has less bugs and less noticable lag. Even on a 10 year old PC it runs with good performance when set to lower settings. Comparing that to the the Xbox version that runs below 30 FPS even on the Xbox One X.
You might want to reread my post, as I indicate also hardware aspects and not just controller. Let me address your concerns:
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Smoother gameplay experience is bound by the hardware you use and the settings. If you want Rare to add more options to the game for xbox graphical settings you have my vote. Yet the refresh rate of monitors, graphics cards etc. Also cause discrepancies between PC players, not to mention the Scarlett Xbox will run at double the FPS yet meets the xbox tag standard.
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Load times, this is based on your hard drive. People use an external SSD drive on xbox and have nearly the same times as those on PC, yet they meet the xbox tag. Once again the Scarlett will have an internal SSD and match PC players performance. This difference is not limited to xbox and PC.
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Less bugs? Where how what? Please provide me with examples as a PC player I have experienced my fair share and even had xbox mates of mine laugh while I was having issues while they weren't.
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Lag? You mean ping? This is your internet connection and not your device. Where are you located, what is your speed? I played this game from south Africa and can guarantee I had more lag issues than the majority of people.
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Why if it isn't about controller play is it linked to the opt out? Xbox users can use a mouse and keyboard afterall. If your point is it is hardware not input model why is it there?
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You state it is about hardware yet ignored the Xbox Scarlett query. This is a xbox that will run better, have quicker load times and out perform all other xbox setups. Should the new gen be excluded from opt out or is that ok because you will buy it and have the advantage? It is about fair play after all.
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@shady-ox you might have not bought if for CP, but many PC players were reeled in with the promise of No asterix crossplay. A bigger community, where one would not be given other options based on windows or xbox.
You claim there're mass people on both ends, yet the xbox community is still the largest one.
I can live with a controller opt out option if given to everyone, but the xbox only aspect is not what we were promised nor is in line with Rare or Microsoft messaging. It is a money driven business decision being made that has nothing to do with equal treatment or fair play.
@shady-ox said in Another crossplay discussion:
I did not buy this game because of CP, same with many of my friends.
The discussion is the same as it has allways been on this forum regarding CP. If the devs dont want more sales and Xbox players keep CP as it is. Make it optional, let the players choose if they want it or not.
Some of my friends got the game, stop playing because of CP and unfair advantage. I am still hoping that this optional feature will come in the future. Then ill buy this game.
Hope everyone has a good Christmas and a happy 2020
You all keep talking about this unfair advantage. Yet still can't fully prove it and we see all the time people killing it on both ends. So this argument of unfair advantage is trash.. You have plenty of options to play this game and how you want to play it. YOU as the player are not limited to Xbox or even PC. Its time for people to finally get over this.
And again, this need for segregation of platforms is coming from a small portion of the community at this time. Yes, some people want this and others want that, but as a whole the community seems to be quite pleased where we are in terms of platform play. So if that means Rare loses some players. So be it. This is how markets work. You cannot please everyone and if you try, its an impossible task that typically leads to the demise of that product (in this case SoT).
Love the discussion on this however and I do think it ends up being constructive to a point. But we are at a area with lack of data to back it up and feelings just don't matter compared to the data.
(And yes, Cheers to 2020!)
You all say "choice hurts No-one" but you have all admitted that given opt-out you would go there, and to be fair so would the majority of the PvE crowd as you all just want an easier game without PvP.
Just take a look at Elite Dangerous, was a PvEvP shared world, and they segrated players by giving them a "choice" - they allowed private sessions, which in is the same as segregating due to device.
Most people took the private sessions option to the point that the true Open world part of the game suffered. They are now takeing features away from the private sessions to get people to play the game as intended, all because of choice.
TLDR: people just want it easy, whether thats segration by device or Play style, they hide their arguments behind "choice" when really it would change the game fundamentally,
Therefore one can only conclude they want another game.I'm all about Rare deciding which direction they want SoT to go. They know more options don't necessarily make a better game.
Enabling any form of opt-out for consoles in Adventure goes against core design elements, and pretty much signals to the playerbase that crossplay is a failure and are willing to cave in to select groups for profit.
Especially when many of the most vocal people asking for this no longer even play.
There is a forum ranked master that hasn't even bought the game.
In the end, it really doesn't matter.Yeah, I'll let Rare decide. They have all the pertinent data, as this tiresome battle rages on here on the forum.
@badassfro sagte in Another crossplay discussion:
You all say "choice hurts No-one" but you have all admitted that given opt-out you would go there, and to be fair so would the majority of the PvE crowd as you all just want an easier game without PvP.
Just take a look at Elite Dangerous, was a PvEvP shared world, and they segrated players by giving them a "choice" - they allowed private sessions, which in is the same as segregating due to device.
Most people took the private sessions option to the point that the true Open world part of the game suffered. They are now takeing features away from the private sessions to get people to play the game as intended, all because of choice.
TLDR: people just want it easy, whether thats segration by device or Play style, they hide their arguments behind "choice" when really it would change the game fundamentally,
Therefore one can only conclude they want another game.^This.
We must finally stop acting like opt-out would just be a choice that doesn't affect the core game at all.But yeah, as long as some people create new accounts to spew horses**t like PC player moving and sailing faster, I don't see much hope in this debate getting anywhere.
That being said: 500! We did it folks, we sorta got ourselves a new mega thread.
for clarity and accuracy sake-
Did rare ever give xbox players the ability to use a mouse and keyboard? I seem to recall it initially wasn't possible; but it should be a thing if it isn't It's not like the xbox can't do it. FFXIV allows console palyers to use mouse and keyboard, and that game is also coming to xbox in the future.
@troubled-cells said in Another crossplay discussion:
@tahngarthor yes you can, and it works fine.
Well that mostly tosses the fairness argument out the window when both platforms have access to the same input methods, which is the primary point of contention.
(edit: spelling/grammar)
Last night was a wonderful night of burning and sinking PC players on the seas of adventure. Hearing those sweet screams were pleasing to my ears telling us to get good and other swear words. The entire night last night of the 8 ships we sunk were all PC crews, not 1 were on xbox that we saw. The night before we only came across 2 sloops that were Xbox. Where did the Xbox players go? We are here but I don't see that many of them and when they do run into us most of them go to another game after being sunk twice. Love it!
@tahngarthor said in Another crossplay discussion:
@troubled-cells said in Another crossplay discussion:
@tahngarthor yes you can, and it works fine.
Well that mostly much tosses the fairness argument out the widow when both platforms have access to the same input methods, which is the primary point of contention.
On point there mate.
Still a year away yet before these consoles drop. But the anaconda looks to be amazing value for money. Those loading times!!
You PC players might be begging for opt out 👀😂😂@needsmokes said in Another crossplay discussion:
Still a year away yet before these consoles drop. But the anaconda looks to be amazing value for money. Those loading times!!
You PC players might be begging for opt out 👀😂😂By all means, if these consoles are the "Dumbo's feather" some people need to feel comfortable playing the game and even bring other players back, the more the merrier! PC players won't dicriminate :)
@bloodybil said in Another crossplay discussion:
@needsmokes said in Another crossplay discussion:
Still a year away yet before these consoles drop. But the anaconda looks to be amazing value for money. Those loading times!!
You PC players might be begging for opt out 👀😂😂By all means, if these consoles are the "Dumbo's feather" some people need to feel comfortable playing the game and even bring other players back, the more the merrier! PC players won't dicriminate :)
It's no "dumbos feather" by any means.
Its highly likely next gen will just use a page file system with a SSD and traditional HDD in tandem, if they are looking to keep costs down but want storage over 1TB.
Something which has been available for a long long time on PC.
@troubled-cells said in Another crossplay discussion:
@bloodybil said in Another crossplay discussion:
@needsmokes said in Another crossplay discussion:
Still a year away yet before these consoles drop. But the anaconda looks to be amazing value for money. Those loading times!!
You PC players might be begging for opt out 👀😂😂By all means, if these consoles are the "Dumbo's feather" some people need to feel comfortable playing the game and even bring other players back, the more the merrier! PC players won't dicriminate :)
It's no "dumbos feather" by any means.
Its highly likely next gen will just use a page file system with a SSD and traditional HDD in tandem, if they are looking to keep costs down but want storage over 1TB.
Something which has been available for a long long time on PC.
Well, Dumbo's feather wasn't really magic and he could fly all along :) Hardware doesn't make a player better than another.
If it give them confidence and the impression they are though, all the better for them!
@inboundbomb xbox player here.
Still waiting for Rare to fulfill the promise of crossplay, before I come back.Still miss the game, and even with all the PC players telling me constantly that there is no PC advantage, I will continue to wait.
I have read every argument several times. Most of us probably have. I did a lot of testing before I left the game, even made a YouTube video explaining the differences.
The great thing about xbox is there are hundreds of games I can download at any given moment. SOT is the only game with forced crossplay, thankfully. So, I still game almost everyday. Just waiting to play pirate, at this point, I feel like some other company will create a pirate game for xbox before Rare comes through.@captgraykid said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb xbox player here.
Still waiting for Rare to fulfill the promise of crossplay, before I come back.Still miss the game, and even with all the PC players telling me constantly that there is no PC advantage, I will continue to wait.
I have read every argument several times. Most of us probably have. I did a lot of testing before I left the game, even made a YouTube video explaining the differences.
The great thing about xbox is there are hundreds of games I can download at any given moment. SOT is the only game with forced crossplay, thankfully. So, I still game almost everyday. Just waiting to play pirate, at this point, I feel like some other company will create a pirate game for xbox before Rare comes through.Always Legos Pirates of the Caribbean.
@captgraykid sagte in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb xbox player here.
Still waiting for Rare to fulfill the promise of crossplay, before I come back.Still miss the game, and even with all the PC players telling me constantly that there is no PC advantage, I will continue to wait.
I have read every argument several times. Most of us probably have. I did a lot of testing before I left the game, even made a YouTube video explaining the differences.
The great thing about xbox is there are hundreds of games I can download at any given moment. SOT is the only game with forced crossplay, thankfully. So, I still game almost everyday. Just waiting to play pirate, at this point, I feel like some other company will create a pirate game for xbox before Rare comes through.Happy waiting then 👋
@SavagExXxOnE LEGO Potc is a damn fine game... Now that you mention it, I might have to replay it sometime soon^^
@racmop sagte in Another crossplay discussion:
it looks to me like they couldn't play amongst themselves
Ah yes, typical PC gamers. Always refuse to play against each other. That's why the huge e-sports events have turned into debating clubs because no one would touch their PCs. Actually, my very secret and trustworthy source from the official council of PC gaming told me that all major brands decided to get rid of multiplayer on PC completely because we just wouldn't play against each other.
There are so many arguments to be made around this topic - yet you chose the one thing that doesn't even make sense.
@racmop sagte in Another crossplay discussion:
LOL
Its all about supporting data. I would love to know what the population of players are using as a platform. This is a big factor on any decision that Rare and only Rare would make. But the data has to be there to even support anyone's ideas.
Until then everything said by anyone will just be speculation.
Most players I know or run into have finished their grinds and are pretty much just looking for some raiding. Which, is what this game becomes once you do almost everything. The thrill of the find after all the grind. That's what many are out doing. You separate the community 50/50 it will die off pretty fast. But again, need more data for any of this.
None the less this game is still hovering in the top 25 games played each week so we know many are out there on the seas and enjoying the game for what it is. That just tells me we have some sour people in the community and that is going to happen. Can't make everyone happy.
@captgraykid said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb xbox player here.
Still waiting for Rare to fulfill the promise of crossplay, before I come back.Still miss the game, and even with all the PC players telling me constantly that there is no PC advantage, I will continue to wait.
I have read every argument several times. Most of us probably have. I did a lot of testing before I left the game, even made a YouTube video explaining the differences.
The great thing about xbox is there are hundreds of games I can download at any given moment. SOT is the only game with forced crossplay, thankfully. So, I still game almost everyday. Just waiting to play pirate, at this point, I feel like some other company will create a pirate game for xbox before Rare comes through.Sad that you left the seas. Me and my Xbox crew will sail on to keep the game alive as long as we can. We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area. Opt out will most likely not come to the adventure side and so be it. I will never purchase a game that has crossplay ever again unless it is PVE only where it can't effect gameplay on an unequal playing field. Take care.
@racmop said in Another crossplay discussion:
@boxcar-squidy I have to respond to this first off you should be ashamed of yourself to use someone else's loss of a loved one in the debate is pathetic and sad you should be ashamed of yourself.
Also you're supposed to be the superior race right PC try opening up a dictionary and learning what the word community means you don't even have to play this game or be part of these forms to be part of this community this game is over reaching there's books comic books merchandise all you got to do to be part of this community is like piratesBack to the debate I believe in players choice either way 50% of my friends list are on PC and the other half are on Xbox but when I go solo I would way prefer to be on Xbox servers versus cross-play but when I'm playing with my friends I would use cross-play it's all about players choice which rare has tooken away from the Xbox community.
I've seen this game go from great to good to sad back in the day no one ever attacked merchant it happens on the daily now very sad.
I would love to see the data of before the opt-out option in arena and how many PC players were playing and the after it looks to me like they couldn't play amongst themselves so now they are coming to adventure like a virus looking for a host
LOL
But at the end of the day the game is a great game if my adding an option we can retain players and gain players back they should at least try it or at least put it in the Insiders program cuz if I'm playing with Bob who's on Xbox then I should have the option to go to Xbox servers only and if I'm playing with Fred and Bob then I should have the option to go to cross-play that's my two cents on thisListen buddy, that fella posted about his loss. I pointed out that the fact that he and his wife had such wonderful memories from the game invalidates some of the lies you lot are pushing. In particular the ones about how no one except PC players and PvP sweats are able to have a good time with the game.
I'm not using the death of his wife for anything. I'm highlighting what he said about the great times they shared. The game made a lasting impression on him and his wife. Just like it has on me and loads of other people. Even you, you say it's a great game.
How is it you've somehow managed to enjoy yourself despite the terrible handicap of being on Xbox? Oh right, because it's not such a terrible handicap and you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts if not outright lying. Otherwise how can it be something you enjoy so much when you're so disadvantaged that you'd tear the community apart for the illusion of a level playing field.
Lots of people, like the guy I referenced, enjoy the game for what it is and don't take it too seriously. Lots of people enjoy it as a fun social experience and not something that is only fun if they can convince themselves they've won (won what exactly? I've always wondered)
This is a public forum, I can say what I like (so long as I keep to the code and keep it classy), I can use whatever supporting evidence I want to back up my point of view, you don't get to censor FACTS just because they invalidate some of your disengenuous arguments.
Speaking of lies, people used to not attack merchants? Is that a fact? No it's not, I've played since just before launch and at no point have we collectively just left anyone alone because of the sort of voyage they were on.
That's such an obvious untruth that it's ridiculous that you'd even make that statement. Go have a look on this very forum and you'll see people complaining about their animals getting shot all the way back to launch day.
It's hillarious how people like you go on the offensive every time someone disagrees with you claiming that we're trying to stop you expressing your opinions when it's you who's trying to tell me what I'm allowed talk about in a thread on a public forum. Grade A hypocrisy.
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area.
I just try and keep a wary eye out. Mouse and keyboard advantage don't mean squat if they can't catch me.
And if they do catch me... well if someone catches me the outcome is already determined no matter what platform they're on. So for me, personally, it's a moot point.
@savagexxxone "I would love to know what the population of players are using as a platform."
FYI (if you're wondering about the split), the last time Joe mentioned it (which was a long while ago, and only a single weekend sample size) it was roughly 35% PC, and 65% Xbox. Math might have changed since then.
@vacahombre said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area.
I just try and keep a wary eye out. Mouse and keyboard advantage don't mean squat if they can't catch me.
And if they do catch me... well if someone catches me the outcome is already determined no matter what platform they're on. So for me, personally, it's a moot point.
This may be true for a solo playstyle but I play with a combat crew on a galleon. If we run into a xbox crew we can have a little more slack on sending boarders over to anchor and help sink the ship. If a PC Crew is present only one may leave if we have the upper hand, if not we stay on ship and pepper them to death with cannon fire and fire bombs. We defend those ladders to deny access to the ship no matter what. We just have different strategies for the different platforms.
@punyweakling said in Another crossplay discussion:
@savagexxxone "I would love to know what the population of players are using as a platform."
FYI (if you're wondering about the split), the last time Joe mentioned it (which was a long while ago, and only a single weekend sample size) it was roughly 35% PC, and 65% Xbox. Math might have changed since then.
Thanks, yeah I would be curious on the overall numbers closer to current time frame. If in fact there are more Xbox players by a good margin, then in fact CP would be killed by segregated servers.
The fact that you can use a M/K on Xbox and even a Controller on PC (I do) just boggles my mind on these discussions at times.
(So many facts.... lol)
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
@vacahombre said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area.
I just try and keep a wary eye out. Mouse and keyboard advantage don't mean squat if they can't catch me.
And if they do catch me... well if someone catches me the outcome is already determined no matter what platform they're on. So for me, personally, it's a moot point.
This may be true for a solo playstyle but I play with a combat crew on a galleon. If we run into a xbox crew we can have a little more slack on sending boarders over to anchor and help sink the ship. If a PC Crew is present only one may leave if we have the upper hand, if not we stay on ship and pepper them to death with cannon fire and fire bombs. We defend those ladders to deny access to the ship no matter what. We just have different strategies for the different platforms.
And when you get harpooned or rammed and the clown car ends up on your deck going after you all? Those ladder camps won't save you! Hehe ;)
Interesting that you have different strats based on platforms... Each crew I run into I treat the same and if they get the urge to try something they all end up the same... (sunk).
Yeah, that's kinda why my input on these discussions is pretty limited. With my way of playing, I tend to sidestep many of the problems some XBox and/or PvE skewed players seem to be having.
So while none of it bothers me, I recognize that my playstyle is in the severe minority.
@savagexxxone said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
@vacahombre said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area.
I just try and keep a wary eye out. Mouse and keyboard advantage don't mean squat if they can't catch me.
And if they do catch me... well if someone catches me the outcome is already determined no matter what platform they're on. So for me, personally, it's a moot point.
This may be true for a solo playstyle but I play with a combat crew on a galleon. If we run into a xbox crew we can have a little more slack on sending boarders over to anchor and help sink the ship. If a PC Crew is present only one may leave if we have the upper hand, if not we stay on ship and pepper them to death with cannon fire and fire bombs. We defend those ladders to deny access to the ship no matter what. We just have different strategies for the different platforms.
And when you get harpooned or rammed and the clown car ends up on your deck going after you all? Those ladder camps won't save you! Hehe ;)
Interesting that you have different strats based on platforms... Each crew I run into I treat the same and if they get the urge to try something they all end up the same... (sunk).
Sorry to tell you but we've only been sunk once in the past year on a galleon and that was due to Karen's interference during the fight. We know our ship and our place on the ship. If you try to harpoon you will be fire bombed, try a ram you will be anchor balled or rigged followed by a weary or jig before you get near. We play the game to our favor and not the enemies but not to say that these things haven't happened because there has been instances of those things and the clown died. Perhaps you haven't ran into a crew and just a groups of randos.
@vacahombre said in Another crossplay discussion:
Yeah, that's kinda why my input on these discussions is pretty limited. With my way of playing, I tend to sidestep many of the problems some XBox and/or PvE skewed players seem to be having.
So while none of it bothers me, I recognize that my playstyle is in the severe minority.
Not true... when I solo it's to just be on the seas. I would rather alliance up or just chat than fight, typically because I have nothing to loose all the time. I throw down an Athena voyage with no attempt to even do it, just collecting the miles and it upset a few ships that had boarded me and saw what I was doing and waited for the steal only to see I have nothing but a little over starter supplies. Quite humorous for me. So I am also in the minority as well when I play solo.
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
@savagexxxone said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
@vacahombre said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area.
I just try and keep a wary eye out. Mouse and keyboard advantage don't mean squat if they can't catch me.
And if they do catch me... well if someone catches me the outcome is already determined no matter what platform they're on. So for me, personally, it's a moot point.
This may be true for a solo playstyle but I play with a combat crew on a galleon. If we run into a xbox crew we can have a little more slack on sending boarders over to anchor and help sink the ship. If a PC Crew is present only one may leave if we have the upper hand, if not we stay on ship and pepper them to death with cannon fire and fire bombs. We defend those ladders to deny access to the ship no matter what. We just have different strategies for the different platforms.
And when you get harpooned or rammed and the clown car ends up on your deck going after you all? Those ladder camps won't save you! Hehe ;)
Interesting that you have different strats based on platforms... Each crew I run into I treat the same and if they get the urge to try something they all end up the same... (sunk).
Sorry to tell you but we've only been sunk once in the past year on a galleon and that was due to Karen's interference during the fight. We know our ship and our place on the ship. If you try to harpoon you will be fire bombed, try a ram you will be anchor balled or rigged followed by a weary or jig before you get near. We play the game to our favor and not the enemies but not to say that these things haven't happened because there has been instances of those things and the clown died. Perhaps you haven't ran into a crew and just a groups of randos.
Why should you be sorry? You really think one cares about being sunk or not? Most of us PL's can't recall the last time we were sunk that is not the point.
We all play the game as we see fit, that wasn't my over all point to my post. The fact you have "tactics" based on the assumed platform you think someone is on was what I was reaching at.
Blowing yourself up on a forum means little. To your point, perhaps we haven't ran into a decent crew, but perhaps either have you ;)
Cheers!
@savagexxxone said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
@savagexxxone said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
@vacahombre said in Another crossplay discussion:
@inboundbomb said in Another crossplay discussion:
We know there are significant differences in platforms but we prioritize appropriately when there are PC players in the area.
I just try and keep a wary eye out. Mouse and keyboard advantage don't mean squat if they can't catch me.
And if they do catch me... well if someone catches me the outcome is already determined no matter what platform they're on. So for me, personally, it's a moot point.
This may be true for a solo playstyle but I play with a combat crew on a galleon. If we run into a xbox crew we can have a little more slack on sending boarders over to anchor and help sink the ship. If a PC Crew is present only one may leave if we have the upper hand, if not we stay on ship and pepper them to death with cannon fire and fire bombs. We defend those ladders to deny access to the ship no matter what. We just have different strategies for the different platforms.
And when you get harpooned or rammed and the clown car ends up on your deck going after you all? Those ladder camps won't save you! Hehe ;)
Interesting that you have different strats based on platforms... Each crew I run into I treat the same and if they get the urge to try something they all end up the same... (sunk).
Sorry to tell you but we've only been sunk once in the past year on a galleon and that was due to Karen's interference during the fight. We know our ship and our place on the ship. If you try to harpoon you will be fire bombed, try a ram you will be anchor balled or rigged followed by a weary or jig before you get near. We play the game to our favor and not the enemies but not to say that these things haven't happened because there has been instances of those things and the clown died. Perhaps you haven't ran into a crew and just a groups of randos.
We all play the game as we see fit, that wasn't my over all point to my post. The fact you have "tactics" based on the assumed platform you think someone is on was what I was reaching at.
Blowing yourself up on a forum means little. To your point, perhaps we haven't ran into a decent crew, but perhaps either have you ;)
I'm sorry to come off a little stern. As for the assuming part there is none. I can tell what platform you are playing on within render distance and your crew as well. Every Xbox player can do this because it is part of the reporting system. Checking recent players to see how combat will be taken care of is just second nature to us on this game.
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