The get gud argument aside i can't help but feel there's some major issues with some part of the pvp formula. I've played since day one on console and 9 times out of 10 I face a slaughter in pvp. Im more than proficient
in many other fps and combat games and yet here its all goose eggs. Ship combat is nearly as broken feeling. Besides the always toxic community that attacks on sight, the constant barrage of trolls are sucking the fun out of the game for me and I assume many others like me. The constant feeling of inadequacy after spending far too much time in the game with little increase in proficiency to combat the PC elites and other sweats is just disheartening. I don't know what the answer is and I don't know if Rare even cares. AND SADLY THEY KILLED THE ARENA THE ONLY PLACE WERE PRACTICE COULD BE HAD IN A FORMAT THAT MADE IT OK TO LOSE IN THE HOPES OF GAINING EXPIRIENCE.
TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM
Objective toxicity is violation of rules that are based on keeping things from being extreme and/or personal
I will give anyone on this topic cringe, there is a lot of cringe in this game, I'll give em unpleasant, lots of unpleasant interactions in this game, condescending, I'll give 'em that.
Objective toxicity is pretty rare, especially in pvp (on the pvpers side) and especially within skilled pvp as far as public behavior goes. They typically are using private voice, they are typically well aware how things can be used against them, if they were toxic in behavior they wouldn't have lasted as long as many of them have.
People are allowed to pvp how they wish with a few main exceptions.
@schwammlgot Thanks for the input. In a way that gives me some small amount of encouragement. However that has been my expirience and that of a considerable number of other on my friends list met thru playing and lfg that shared similar sentiments . Avoidance has been the strategy weve been forced to adopt which contributes to the fun killing elements I was trying to express. Its hard to live out a pirate adventure when it seems you MUST run at the 1st signs of other players or run a tremendously high risk of losing the bounty of hours worth of work. Its a reality that weve been attempting to deal with because many of my group of friends enjoy the game but the growing fustrations have led some to quit with others myself included pondering if the expirience is worth the constant feeling of belittlement. One of the main reason I have endured is because I have invested into the game via the Emporium. Im glad you havent suffered our same expiriences.
@count-drogos I’m like @schwammlgott and can count on one hand the toxic encounters over the past 5 years.
You gotta remember to keep one eye on the horizon, stock your ship well with supplies, be ready to fight or flight and sell often. :D@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
The get gud argument aside i can't help but feel there's some major issues with some part of the pvp formula. I've played since day one on console and 9 times out of 10 I face a slaughter in pvp. Im more than proficient
in many other fps and combat games and yet here its all goose eggs. Ship combat is nearly as broken feeling. Besides the always toxic community that attacks on sight,Uh, that's not toxic. SoT is a fantasy pirate game, and pirates fighting one another is to be expected.
the constant barrage of trolls are sucking the fun out of the game for me and I assume many others like me. The constant feeling of inadequacy after spending far too much time in the game with little increase in proficiency to combat the PC elites and other sweats is just disheartening.
Controller is always a disadvantage, unless you're using that two-three hundred dollar one. I agree, there are copious amounts of sweat, but start small. There still can be noobs.
I don't know what the answer is and I don't know if Rare even cares. AND SADLY THEY KILLED THE ARENA THE ONLY PLACE WERE PRACTICE COULD BE HAD IN A FORMAT THAT MADE IT OK TO LOSE IN THE HOPES OF GAINING EXPIRIENCE.
I miss arena. What a blast it was.
@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
@idneon Thanks for the advice
Yeah man there's tutorials on the double gunning tricks that makes it pretty powerful. It's easier for defense than sword because controlling top deck is more important than lower deck if you're defending. Double gunning and blunderbombs are top deck weapons. Firebombs and swords are bottom deck.
Also there's a very optimized route to take to pvp on a each Ship. If you watch pvper YouTube tutorials (again double gun tutorials really get into this) then you'll probably learn what the exact routes are.
But basically sloop is over the rail on the cannon barrels up the stairs off the side up the ladder. Etc.
Brig is a lot of in water routes just over the rail up the stairs etc.
Galleon is that famed jump off the pootdeck onto balcony then over to the planks in front of the balcony the over the rail and so on.
Practice jumping these routes and shooting your ship's bell when. Yoi are sailing between locations. (Avoid the inwater stuff that's anchored).
The blunder bomb gets used to either get them off the ladder or to blast them away from anchor.
The idea of double gunning is you keep distance so you're able to control the pace of the boarding fight.
I've recently added kegs but haven't been chased yet. Instead I've gone head first at possible enemies and kegged them. I've stopped being chased entirely. Could just be a few lucky encounterd but time will tell.
The idea is that the keg just demoralizes so much they don't want to Pursue.
@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
Its a reality that weve been attempting to deal with because many of my group of friends enjoy the game but the growing fustrations have led some to quit with others myself included pondering if the expirience is worth the constant feeling of belittlement. One of the main reason I have endured is because I have invested into the game via the Emporium. Im glad you havent suffered our same expiriences.
I've played 12k hours, organic play style, someone that produced the entire time and fought pvpers as they showed up. I enjoyed most of my time but I completely understand where those are coming from that don't.
This game can be incredibly frustrating, the interactions quite annoying. Interference can be off-putting.
People are playing this game on different difficulty settings.
Some play easy mode, skilled larger crews that roam/hop around stealing loot from crews that largely are not in any real position to defend. They aren't taking significant risks, This is an easy way to play this game and it's going to result in an overall more chill experience.
Many play hard mode, they don't have the skilled crews, they are taking most of the risk, they are producing most of the server's loot, they are taking most of the losses, this is a much more difficult situation to be in and it's understandable why many don't enjoy some or much of what they experience in this play style,
Mate, could you please define more than proficient and explain what do you mean by PC players and other sweats. Kind of contradicts itself, or your opinion about your own skills is slightly exaggerated. (I am talking about a fair fight and not sloop vs galleon)
I could advise you to learn to move quick and not in straight lines when you are engaged in pvp combat, jump around and try to flank other players, observe what weapons they are using.
If you have troubles aiming with joystick, use a cutlass and the blunderbuss. Blunder is instant kill if your point blank range.@lizalaroo Thanks for your personal persepective It adds color to the conversation that helps brighten the prospects. I suppose when myself and too many others I know consider flight as the only option its fustrating. Im sure you can empathize how that might drain some of the fun out of the expirience . But Ill continue to watch the horizon as you suggest at least as long as I have people to play with and can muster excitment for the treasure hunt knowing that PVPer/ Reapers/ Sweats are always around the corner waiting to dampen our fun to enhance their own wo consideration . Its all fair play but that doesnt mean it doesnt have a chilling effect on the enjoyment and excitment many of us feel for the game. I wish we could be more like you and consider fighting an option . I myself have over 72 days played and my friends are all in the same ballpark. Weve looked for tips aand strategies in videos and have made it a point to seek out fights to attempt to gain exp but the results are always the same ... We fire ...they live they fire we die ...the ship sinks and the hard earned loot is gone. The saddest part is while I still try to play daily many of my RL friends that used to play regularly now avoid the game whenever possible as they belive it s more likely that any adventure will conclude as a waste of time wo any signficant pay off. I just want have to have a good time with my friends
@wolfmanbush Thank you for empathizing even though Im sure you PVP and are probably good at it . We're trying but cant figure out what were doing wrong when in other settings combat has never been an issue. Some people have offered some great advice and I look forward to atttempting to research and apply their suggestions .
@zig-zag-ltu Well I think I have stated my skills in this game are obviously nill . I am a savage in other titles and the only reason I stated that is because FPSing is something i have decades of expirience in and have always done more than well . Thus my fustrations in being unable to get a foothold in this game and how PVP works. I believe when its comes to PC elites and the like the issue is so self evident that even the developers made a controller feature in an attempt to address the concerns many of the community raised. I appreciate your advice.
@pithyrumble Definitions of toxic aside many players as evidenced in LFG for example are in the game only to Sink all ships they see or steal other peoples work ...Their words. That seems toxic to me but regardless if you identify it as toxic I hope you can at least understand how others might find that mentality and gameplay style as valid as it maybe off putting and could lead them to quit the game. I see that as a net negative and as I have shared in their expiriences and have battled the desire to uninstall and leave the game based on way too many encounters that seemed sooooooo one sided that they seemed massively unbalanced where 1 guy can kill a team of 3 or 4 PLs respawn after respawn I decided to make a post to vent the fustration we feel hoping that as unlikely as it is someone of influence takes note. A canary in the mines so to speak.
I would like to commend OP for being very respectful and articulate in their replies, it's really nice to see an actual discussion and understanding going on in one of these threads!
I personally do understand your plight, i tend to stray away from PVP when i'm grinding/working towards something since i want to feel like i have accomplished something with my playtime. I absolutely understand the risks, and am prepared to deal with players and PVP, i have very much come to terms with the game being PVPVE and i even love it for that fact, but i can get behind that sometimes fights are very one-sided/unbalanced, especially when you aren't the one in control.
To me, the only "toxic behaviour" IS bannable offenses, or anything that can be considered harassment such as spawn camping for no reason, or toxic voice comms, but no matter how frustrated i get upon a sink, or how hard i get stomped, i either stay silent, or i'll toss out a GG if it was a clean fight. If a Galleon of sweats rolls up and knocks me down, but all say GG or something nice in chat after, i say it back, move on pretty quick and either stop playing for the day, or move on to a different server. This game does have a learning curve of not just how to PVP, but also actually how to take loss too, since in this game, it can be palpable.
My personal suggestion to OP is to find what fun you get from this game, whether it's progress, hanging with friends, or just having a laugh, and investing in learning how to maximise that. If you like the feeling of progress, overtime you definitely learn how to scope servers out, get a feel for your surrounding pirate's, etc. and especially how to be efficient and minimise loss. If you really just play to have fun, there is no shame in loss, just do what you find fun and focus on that!I wouldn't call it toxic to sink everything on sight, I'd say it's not a good playstyle however for the longevity of the game and to keep a healthy supply of players coming to the game that you can fight at a later date. Investment in new players by veterans is key to the games future.
I will say though that SoT is strange in that it actually caters to these player types. Ship's are throw away items, supplies are easy to come by and there is no punishment for sinking apart from time. It's one of the few games where you can own a vessel, it's your most important tool but costs you nothing if you lose it which I've always found a bit bizarre. I try to sink as little as possible and I was hoping captaincy would play into this role play a little more but it doesn't really apart from the ill fated milestone.
i didnt touched reaper since i reached level 75. since milestones made it to the game i grind reaper again for milestone trophys. it feels not nice that i grind for something and people who join the server by portal hopping headin for me ,so other players just portal hopp and search for pvp that makes it a bit unbalanced . i think its also not good that people without a emissary can see me cause when i win i have nothing from it. for me it would be way better when reaper become seeable when they hit level 5 i get a benefit and other crews as well, but ye the whole portal hopping and reaper thing feels like a streamers service . i like pvp but its every session the same game it takes 90 minutes till other players go for me mostly 90% without loot on their ship,i just ask me for what i grind???
I used to shy away from PvP as it always seemed a scary concept and I never felt good enough and didn't want the risk. However, after earning some gold through PvE and doing most of the events I realised that gold is pretty worthless, sure you can get some cool cosmetics with it but that is it. Once you've done events/ TT/ voyages 100's of times you look for something more engaging.
PvP is where the most fun can be had (for many), as it is unique with every encounter, you have no idea what you will come up against. My crew is 50/50 controller and K/M and we do fine. We will do an event or a voyage but we will attack every ship we see while doing it, not because we are toxic but because it is fun, regardless of the outcome. It is where this games replayability lies, if PvP did not exist in the game I would have bored of it long ago. We rarely encounter aggressive crews, most will run or defend themselves but the vast majority will not be attacking us. We'd much prefer it if they did attack us, however!
If you want to practice PvP then have a session where you go looking for other ships to attack. Don't do any events or voyages, just go out there with a reapers flag and attack other players. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If you sink, try again, if you win then you may have got some decent loot from it. Either way, enjoy the experience and gain that PvP experience doing so.
I've played since day one on console and 9 times out of 10 I face a slaughter in pvp.
I’ve played since D1 and also on console. Yet…4/10 I rarely ever see pvp come my way. Until I switch to pc servers. :/
Also. Arena wasn’t a good place to “practice” pvp since what happens there doesn’t happen in adventure.
No kraken to randomly spawn, skeleton ship to aggro you, volcanos to one shot.Just because you raced your car In GTA racing mode doesn’t mean your a good driver outside the mode. Someone gonna toss c4 :p or cops show up XD
@silentkiller646 This is a perspective I can really appreciate and upon reflection believe is something intuitively understand and have put into practice. We all enjoy the game enough to spend hours sailing and looting. With efforts to get gud a priority we just wished it felt as if we stood a chance at fighting back more often than we do. STILL so many of you have shared your experiences and coping mechanism to help our journey and I am grateful
@a10dr4651 Thank you. I CAN see that perspective. Trying to understand the other side as well as venting from our perspective has made the gut reaction and frustration that motivated the og post fade from a boil to a simmer . I appreciate your time.
@jack-lester I get that and if it felt we stood a chance I think we'd enjoy PVP a bit more as well as the few times we get lucky and actually winn its exciting and fun. No one likes to be the constant loser and since we all play different titles and have tasted what it is to be good at other pvp we wish we could find a little more of that in a game we would otherwise enjoy so much more such as SoT. MANY have been generous with thier advice and well continue to try to get more proficient via loadouts and ship routes etc in hopes of creating a better balance as to find the fun in an element of the game that has long been the source of so much fustrations. THANK YOU FOR your engament and helping me see the otherwise a little clearer
@zig-zag-ltu Cannons can be a little challenging partic chain shots at intermedite to longer ranges but the crux for most of us Ive talked to myself included is probably movement and the feeling of our hits and shots never finish the fight were we feel that the enemy manages to land shots far more at will and that leads to our death. Ive of course pent time with the Blunder at PB range aimed down sights and that has helped but for example we got boarded and even with their back turned and 2 of us blundering and sword swinging at close to PB range the enemy was able to drop crate and dispatch us dispite of multiple landed hits with hit markers . And thats not an isolated event. Now I know..."we suck" but part of the reason I posted was to try to figure out where we are going soo seemingly wrong and attempt to correct it so we feel we DO actually have the otion of Flight or FIGHT.
Well not sure how I could help about the cannons, I just feel I improve naturally the more I use them and just trying to get the 'feel for range'. Personally I have noticed that firing chain shots really depends on the day and how often I do it. I could be playing every day and have days where I cant land a single one, then I could have days where I disable every ship we encounter.
However, if you are willing to improve I could share a tactic that is popular amongst Counter Strike players.
You pick a spot on a wall. Anything really. (The reason it is perfect for CS, as your shots leave marks in the wall for some time)
You turn away from it, to which ever corner of your screen. And then try to aim at it and hit as quickly as possible and you repeat this exercise until you feel you have improved. I would often start warming up like this before competitive matches years ago, then move to death match etc.
Recently I have gotten back to playing CSGO casually, although the skill for the game is different than sea of thieves, I find many many similarities in these games.
And I have noticed that every time I go to an island and someone starts shooting my ship (PANIC!) it is a skeleton on a canon, and to my own surprise I have hit on the first hit regardless of the distance every single time. Where as when I have played just sea of thieves and no shooter games, it would take some time before I dispatched him.
I am not a pvp lord but i can hold my own if i try against most. I hope my silly examples will help, please feel free to ask if you feel I could give you advice, would be more than happy to help you improve. Also if you want you are welcome to join me on my sloop next time I play. I hate solo PVP and sometimes I really want to fight back, but don't even try due to numbers disadvantage as I know how it will end 9 times out of 10
@zig-zag-ltu Thank you very much . That sounds like a very useful drill. I will set it to practice and pass on the information.
@count-drogos To help with Cannons, I suggest spamming the Ghost fleet voyages and trying to destroy ships before they are able to fire at you, with at least one sail, and to finish it as quickly as possible. Vary the number of sails in order to get a feel for the difference in speed and maniability.
It will train your helm to position more efficiently and your cannons to be more accurate at every distance. :)
@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
pondering if the expirience is worth the constant feeling of belittlement. One of the main reason I have endured is because I have invested into the game via the Emporium.
Like any investment, cut your losses.
It's a game afterall; it's not worth the hassle if you're not enjoying it anymore.
I can't even remember the last time I played this game, but keeping an eye on the forums it seems clear things have only gotten worse. I mean, even some of the regular defenders of this game have been complaining about that new adventure.
@thagoochiestman Thats a fair point and worth consideration. I think Ill drill some of the advice provided. Hopefully we'll see some difference else we may have no other choice but to finally raise the white flag and let the ship sink
The PvP kills the game, for me.
Just a few days ago, my friend and I had a group that rammed us while blasting Katie Perry songs at volumes that made my headset speakers buzz.
We managed to get away, then saw they were sailing for Reaper's Hideout with a Grade 5 flag.
So we went after THEM.Suddenly it was 'WoW yOuRe CoOl!' (Only way I can describe the utter sarcasm and mocking tones) as we sunk them. 'WoW! YoU cAn ShOoT a PaRkEd ShIp!'
When I blasted one of them off our ship, I asked 'Did I kill him?'. Cue the mocking over how my voice sounds.
Anything my friends and I said was mocked back at us.They went from 'Lol. We're awesome. Look at us being absolute trolls' to pitching a fit the second we got the drop on them.
Which is why I LOATHE the PvP in this game. I always seem to find the utter bell-ends who are determined, in words and in deed, to suck the fun out of any and all encounters.It's never 'Good fight'.
It's mocking if I lose, and mocking if I win.
Screw PvP.@count-drogos said in TOXIC PVP KILLING ENTHUSIASM:
Thats a fair point and worth consideration. I think Ill drill some of the advice provided. Hopefully we'll see some difference else we may have no other choice but to finally raise the white flag and let the ship sink
at the end of the day the experiences of others are pretty irrelevant to your experience, you're the one that has to deal with whatever happens in your experience.
a lot of it is subjective and people handle it all differently
it's also quite a different game these days, it has the same back drop but things change over time. In some ways the changes have benefited the casual experience and in some ways it has not really hit the mark for the casual experience.
Personally as someone that has played more than most I think everyone is accurate to some degree. The positive experiences definitely are out there and there is opportunity to find them and the negative experiences are definitely a reality for many. The experiences of some don't really cross out the experiences of others.
I would consider the game opportunity, opportunity to have a good time, opportunity to find adventure, but in the world of randomness some are going to face more negative things than others.
I wouldn't try to force compatibility, it only makes this game more difficult to navigate. The more frustrated someone begins a session as the more frustrated they will be when it ends.
