The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing

  • What if Ramsey resurrected the Magpie's Wing in much the same form as the Burning Blade? (In lore, the Magpie's Wing was only a galleon, that's why I call it the Risen Magpie's Wing in the title)

    It could be manned by phantoms instead of skellies, but otherwise function similarly. Maybe a different kind of front projectile and phantom-callers, but otherwise comparable.

    I'm thinking they would need to be fairly similar for the next part of this... diving into battle against the opposing ship, much like in Hourglass. If a player-controlled opponent cannot be found, the matchmaking would fall back on a beefed-up AI version (i.e. more difficult than the current world event).

    Unlike Hourglass, this would take place on an Arena-like self-contained server (no other ships or events, for performance reasons) and after the battle you would merge back to an Adventure server with your spoils.

    Defeating the enemy would gain you their Burning Blade of Souls/Sword of Souls loaded with maybe 5 rituals, as well as giving a large chunk of Allegiance for your faction.

    Discuss and drop any wild ideas for how this could function below!


    Obviously, this is very much wishful thinking and heavily dependent on optimisations to allow both ships on the same server.


    EDIT

    There's a little bit of feedback on this, so I'll just add an addendum.

    "Why not call it the Athena's Fortune?"

    Yep, I had considered this up to a couple of minutes before posting, but the change to Magpie's Wing is purely to distinguish it. We already have Athena's Fortune the place (bar) and the faction, so I feel it's a bit over-used. I'm not against the idea, but maybe a variation? Such as The Glory of Athena's Fortune or something like that?

    "Why Arena-like servers?"
    That was a comparison point only, I'm not arguing for the return of Arena, I promise. My bad, a better comparison would probably have been the Sea of the Damned - a self contained small area. I said Arena-like because I think it should still take place in the Sea of Thieves, but a smaller area of the map which would have a boundary like in Arena or Hourglass.

    Additional thoughts
    I've been thinking about how to make sure the fight doesn't go on forever because of a running ship, which is a major downside of Hourglass. I imagine some kind of central Ancient anomaly which would change colour to indicate the winning side (Reaper red or Athena bluey green).

    Who is winning would be determined by skellies/phantoms still alive/in reserve as well as damage done to opponent. The battle area would shrink slowly towards the anomaly and, after a period of time, if not already sunk, the losing ship would be struck down. Their flag, sword, and any loot, would be placed on the victor's ship in the hold automatically, before merging the ship out to an Adventure server.

    I'm sure this could be fine-tuned so, again, please discuss.

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  • I really like this idea, but we should use the ship in Athena's Fortune that the shipwright, Legendary Liz, is currently trying to rebuild. We can name it after the Athena's Fortune too since it was once a ship before being made into the Pirate Legend hideout. After such an update, that ship would appear in Athena's Fortune hideout whenever it's not active.

  • I really like the idea of merging Hourglass and Burning Blade and its counterpart, either Magpie's Wing or Athena's Fortune. Hourglass fights of BIG SHIPS or diving to fight a BIG SHIP would be awesome.

  • If the servers can handle this, I think it's a wonderful idea.

  • I would love a showdown between the two Behemoths, though I HIGHLY doubt the servers could handle 2 adjusted Manowars with AI crew

  • This would be cool

  • @arthur79474 said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    I really like this idea, but we should use the ship in Athena's Fortune that the shipwright, Legendary Liz, is currently trying to rebuild. We can name it after the Athena's Fortune too since it was once a ship before being made into the Pirate Legend hideout. After such an update, that ship would appear in Athena's Fortune hideout whenever it's not active.

    Good ideas. I had considered the Athena's Fortune, but my only concern is using the name of the faction/place for a world event/ship. But either works for me if we get an epic battle out of it!

  • @soulstinger2k20 said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    I would love a showdown between the two Behemoths, though I HIGHLY doubt the servers could handle 2 adjusted Manowars with AI crew

    Oh, yeah, I did consider that. Hence the note at the bottom, and why I suggest it take place on a separate "arena-like" server in order to optimise it as best possible for the two ships.

    I couldn't see this ever working on actual Adventure servers.

  • Yeah you can scratch anything remotely "Arena like" from your suggestions; they arent doing that again, and have said so multiple times. Those took their own dedicated servers, and as we can all see; server health and stability are at an all time low.

    Theyre already clearly barely able to keep the existing servers afloat (and all the resources being allocated to safer seas; every single ship on SS gets their own private game world session) much less be able to generate private game world sessions for this idea.

    If they arent going to do it for hourglass; they wouldnt do it for this.

    Tall Tale maybe, tho

  • @soulstinger2k20

    If you think I'm somehow pro-Arena, that's not me. I had zero interest in that mode, especially 2.0. I watched a good bit but I literally did one fight in Arena! LOL

    The comparison was purely to get the idea across, that it's only for performance optimisation reasons, and also why I said you would merge back to Adventure with your spoils.

  • @realstyli

    This would be cool, but what if instead of the Magpie it's the Athena's Fortune?

  • @devtryak said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    @realstyli

    This would be cool, but what if instead of the Magpie it's the Athena's Fortune?

    Arthur79474 made a similar comment above. Either is good with me, I just worry about over-using the name Athena's Fortune when it's already a place and a faction.

  • @realstyli

    That is a valid concern

  • @realstyli
    The better ship would be the Ophelia from the Heart of Fire novel. A man o' war built by the ancients, with a capstan that made it immune to cursed cannonballs. That was important, as it fought the original Burning Blade, which shot cursed cannonballs from its cursed cannons. Ideally I'd want a 6v6 hourglass battle between the two ships. That would bring something new to the game you can't put anywhere else.

    But for something that would rival the Burning Blade out in Adventure, I'd like an Athena Fort. AF has to protect something at the Sea Dog's Tavern, and the Burning Blade wants it. Then there'd be a varied battle of attack and defense, where each crew has different goals and abilities. This is Captain Falcore's idea, and I think it would be a great new way of PvP. I feel like it could work in Hourglass too.

  • @grumpyw01f

    Good ideas. I'd honestly forgotten about Ophelia. I really need to re-read Heart of Fire.

  • @realstyli said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    @grumpyw01f

    Good ideas. I'd honestly forgotten about Ophelia. I really need to re-read Heart of Fire.

    I've heard that from a few people after I mentioned the Ophelia haha

  • @realstyli said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    @arthur79474 said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    I really like this idea, but we should use the ship in Athena's Fortune that the shipwright, Legendary Liz, is currently trying to rebuild. We can name it after the Athena's Fortune too since it was once a ship before being made into the Pirate Legend hideout. After such an update, that ship would appear in Athena's Fortune hideout whenever it's not active.

    Good ideas. I had considered the Athena's Fortune, but my only concern is using the name of the faction/place for a world event/ship. But either works for me if we get an epic battle out of it!

    Happy we can agree on that. Plus, we got the Burning Blade Cutlass, and the Burning Blade Ship. We're gonna need differently themed front cannons if we have them like the Burning Blade though.

    And for the Ophelia anti-curse capstan feature, why not copy that onto the Athena's Fortune ship, like the cursed cannons were used to create Cursed Cannonballs we can use on normal ships? Except the copied anti-curse capstan would be exclusive to the Athena's Fortune ship.

  • @arthur79474

    I would extend the anti-curse features if it's not going to be immune to fire like the Burning Blade. I'd make it completely immune to all curses.

    I've been thinking about the front cannon and how to make it on par with the Burning Blade's flamethrower. Staying on the curses theme, I'm thinking it would be a ball of energy that would apply several curses to the ship with an extended timer - lower capstan, lock supplies, raise sails, and venom ball. Wouldn't want to over-do it, but it should be on the same level as the fireball.

  • @realstyli said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    @arthur79474

    I would extend the anti-curse features if it's not going to be immune to fire like the Burning Blade. I'd make it completely immune to all curses.

    I've been thinking about the front cannon and how to make it on par with the Burning Blade's flamethrower. Staying on the curses theme, I'm thinking it would be a ball of energy that would apply several curses to the ship with an extended timer - lower capstan, lock supplies, raise sails, and venom ball. Wouldn't want to over-do it, but it should be on the same level as the fireball.

    I think anchor, raise sails, and venom are already perfect. Add limp or Grog instead of locking supplies and I think it's all set. Two purple curses, two green curses. Also, the Roar of Curses to fully complete the curse theme against the Burning Blade's Ashen Roar is a brilliant idea.

  • I just realized Flameheart used the original Burning Blade and the Burning Blade Cutlass both in combination to create the current Burning Blade. So what if the Athena's Fortune Man-O-War (Athena's Fortune or Blackwyche) is given a similar treatment in it's creation? Maybe saving Sir Arthur, using one of Flameheart's old cursed cannons, and creating a new Sword of Souls or purifying the old one could factor into how the Athena Man-O-War is created too.

  • I have been wanting this since they announced the burning blade. Just without isolated servers cause thats what killed arena, so as long as it could be in world it would be great.

  • @goldsmen said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    I have been wanting this since they announced the burning blade. Just without isolated servers cause thats what killed arena, so as long as it could be in world it would be great.

    Yeah, this is not really going to rely on separate servers like arena though - these would still technically be Adventure servers, and more akin to Safer Seas, in that sense. So, unlike Arena, they wouldn't need any separate special development. That's what killed Arena (well, that and no-one actually playing it).

    And, to reiterate, you'd merge out once the fight is done - it's only for the fight itself that the ships are isolated. When you merge back, you are vulnerable to attacks on the new server.

    Of course, if there was some way to have these fights on High Seas, that would be 100% preferable. But I anticipate it may be a challenge to keep the server performance up with both ships active as well as other ships, so that's why I suggested an alternative. I'm not a developer though, maybe they could work some magic.

  • I thought about an Athena type ship too and I think it would be a great idea. However, my thoughts on it has always been that since Flameheart was resurrected at the expense of Pendragon. Then, Athena’s “warship” to counter the Burning Blade would be the Blackwyche.

    Pendragon was a big part of Athena’s Fortune and I feel like having his ship go up against the Burning Blade would be the kind of justice Pendragon needs.

  • @riftenwatcher said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    I thought about an Athena type ship too and I think it would be a great idea. However, my thoughts on it has always been that since Flameheart was resurrected at the expense of Pendragon. Then, Athena’s “warship” to counter the Burning Blade would be the Blackwyche.

    Pendragon was a big part of Athena’s Fortune and I feel like having his ship go up against the Burning Blade would be the kind of justice Pendragon needs.

    Yeah, come to think of it, maybe a revived Blackwyche could be the name of the Athena Man-O-War and give Pendragon the chance to right how the fandom still blames him, even though Stitcher Jim tricked him like he tricked everyone else. (Rest In Pieces Jim, hope we can kill him again as an Ashen Lord in the Devil's Roar.) And to make sure it nor the purified or new Sword of Souls aren't corrupted, maybe it could be specifically forged and enchanted to be like Excalibur, the weapon of Sir Arthur's namesake. With the Blackwyche being mainly blue and green in colors.

    EDIT: I think a cutscene could play out where Flameheart tries to take the Sword of Souls from the revived Blackwyche, but is rejected by the sword itself and told by everyone that he is NOT a worthy king at all. With the sword now only allowing those who are worthy to use it.

  • There are a lot of good choices on the "good" side that would make a good opposition to the Burning Blade.

    • Athena's Fortune
    • Blackwyche
    • Magpie's Wing
    • Ophelia
    • Morningstar
  • @realstyli said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    There are a lot of good choices on the "good" side that would make a good opposition to the Burning Blade.

    • Athena's Fortune
    • Blackwyche
    • Magpie's Wing
    • Ophelia
    • Morningstar

    I feel it's a tie between Athena's Fortune and Blackwyche to me. So how bout we ask the players in the future which name should be picked? Though Legendary Liz can use the ship she's working on as the main base for the Athena Man-O-War and incorporate the namesake ship's parts into it during construction for when a name is chosen. The OG Blackwyche needs to still be there for the Tall Tale after all, so we could use certain parts to keep the Tall Tale open. Though if the ship involves saving Arthur in a Tall Tale to explain the ship's creation and how it would include a Sword of Souls into the creation (OG purified or a new one), maybe that could help factor into the naming.

  • @arthur79474

    I think, if it involves Pendragon's return, then certainly the Blackwyche is a very strong contender.

  • @realstyli

    That's a very good point. I would love to save Sir Arthur in a Tall Tale and for Athena to get a Curse Man-O-War both. Also, since the Athena Man-O-War will be crewed by ghosts, should we have stopping rituals help replenish any ghosts that are killed? Like completing rituals adds Skeletons to the Burning Blade crew. I think as compensation for having to kill the skeletons, the ghosts would have more health in comparison so they're not taken out as easily since it's easier to replenish the Burning Blade crew.

  • With how much Flameheart hates festivals, anyone agree that the "Roar of Curses" or whatever the front cannons will be called should have Grog Ball as one of the effects it afflicts anyone it hits? Blurs the vision of the Burning Blade Crew and makes them all wind up vomiting everywhere. Though the main effects I think would be Limp and two purple curse cannonballs (I was thinking anchor and rigging balls for the purple balls, barrel and ballast might make it too much more OP than the Ashen Roar).

  • @arthur79474 said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    With how much Flameheart hates festivals, anyone agree that the "Roar of Curses" or whatever the front cannons will be called should have Grog Ball as one of the effects it afflicts anyone it hits? Blurs the vision of the Burning Blade Crew and makes them all wind up vomiting everywhere. Though the main effects I think would be Limp and two purple curse cannonballs (I was thinking anchor and rigging balls for the purple balls, barrel and ballast might make it too much more OP than the Ashen Roar).

    I think Grogball would be a bit much. My initial suggestion of Venomball was really to try and match the fire, which slowly hurts the players on fire but doesn't impact their ability to move around, defend, or make repairs. Adding a couple of ship curses (such as anchor and rigging), would probably be enough to bring it on par with the Burning Blade's "Hadouken".

  • @realstyli said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    @arthur79474 said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    With how much Flameheart hates festivals, anyone agree that the "Roar of Curses" or whatever the front cannons will be called should have Grog Ball as one of the effects it afflicts anyone it hits? Blurs the vision of the Burning Blade Crew and makes them all wind up vomiting everywhere. Though the main effects I think would be Limp and two purple curse cannonballs (I was thinking anchor and rigging balls for the purple balls, barrel and ballast might make it too much more OP than the Ashen Roar).

    I think Grogball would be a bit much. My initial suggestion of Venomball was really to try and match the fire, which slowly hurts the players on fire but doesn't impact their ability to move around, defend, or make repairs. Adding a couple of ship curses (such as anchor and rigging), would probably be enough to bring it on par with the Burning Blade's "Hadouken".

    Good idea. How bout just poison, grog, anchor, and rigging then? I'll scrap limp then, and I obviously won't use jig, weary, nor ballast balls. Those would be too strong if included.

  • I just remembered my idea of getting the crew to be ghosts, and how I originally suggested getting them to have more health than skeletons while finishing shrines and stopping the rituals to replenish them. Could that be broken? I thought it wasn't too broken since you need to kill all the skeletons, so the Burning Blade would have an easier time replacing any slain obsidian skeletons.

    Also, since we won't have an Ashen Skull, what could we use as a substitute? A different version of the Skull of Siren's song I guess?

  • Hmph. Make it so it only appears once the BB appears

    Afterwards, only emissary Athena can captain it. Only job they have to do, sink the BB

    You lose rep or points if you sink non reaper ships and if you do to many (trolls) Athena sinks itself (main job is fight the BB)

  • @burnbacon said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    Hmph. Make it so it only appears once the BB appears

    Afterwards, only emissary Athena can captain it. Only job they have to do, sink the BB

    You lose rep or points if you sink non reaper ships and if you do to many (trolls) Athena sinks itself (main job is fight the BB)

    Too harsh honestly in case non-reapers attack you first, or you fire on those you don't trust. But yeah, it should become available when the Burning Blade spawns in.

  • @arthur79474 said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    @burnbacon said in The Burning Blade vs The Risen Magpie's Wing:

    Hmph. Make it so it only appears once the BB appears

    Afterwards, only emissary Athena can captain it. Only job they have to do, sink the BB

    You lose rep or points if you sink non reaper ships and if you do to many (trolls) Athena sinks itself (main job is fight the BB)

    Too harsh honestly in case non-reapers attack you first, or you fire on those you don't trust. But yeah, it should become available when the Burning Blade spawns in.

    I would like to see hourglass battles with Athena's Fortune/Blackwyche vs the Burning Blade, but maybe the hourglass should open up only if the game detects that a server has an active Burning Blade under player control. And either sinking the other adds to the streaks, like doing Skeleton Camps as well for them both.

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