Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes

When you say "cannot handle pvp" what do you mean specifically?

I know people with disabilities on high seas that pvp. There is no requirement to win for anyone in SoT, not really that kind of game. People can lose/sink and still make a lot of progress over time.

and I know people that are negatively affected by hostile encounters that play safer seas while being alright with the game balance within the design.

You mention "we" and I'm sure you have people that agree with you but people have different views even when in similar situations.

It's very important to offer accessibility but it's also very important to treat people as one of the whole. That's not through in game reward, that's through respect for the potential that people have to be a part of what is going on. That includes high seas and the attempts to get as many people involved as reasonably possible.

One step forward, one step backwards.

Some people simply don’t enjoy PvP.

Now factor in the random matchmaking in adventure mode where crews of all skill levels can join the same servers and server hopping or diving to a new server can be done as often as desired and guess what…

Now people who were already on the fence about whether they like or can tolerate PvP can be attacked by crews so good at the game they literally have zero chance of winning against.

The request for PvE servers is a product of the utter failure that is random matchmaking in adventure mode.

Rare prioritizes the needs and desires of content creators who feed on inexperienced crews over the needs and desires of the majority of players.

Rare is deathly afraid to make adventure mode matchmaking skill based because then content creators would end up finding each other and other skilled crews over and over again versus having complete access to all the crews of all skill levels actively playing in their region.

Rare prioritizes content creators over player retention and casual player experience.

Rare then ultimately releases safer seas (something they said they would never do) but with disgustingly unfair restrictions, progress gates and reward nerfs.

Separate high seas and safer seas progression. Enable all PvE content in safer seas including Fort of Fortune, Fort of the Damned and the Burning Blade. Allow the host of a safer seas session to add additional ships and invite/kick additional players. Make safer seas into a hybrid of custom/PvE servers.

Start assessing the skill level of all players as they sail the high seas.

Hours played, reputation levels earned, stolen loot handed in, pirates killed, cannon accuracy… there are lots of ways to assess the skill level of players.

Put skilled players on high seas servers with other skilled players. Put new and PvP averse players on high seas servers with other inexperienced players.

Content creators and skilled players should not have access to brand new players or inexperienced players. The only result of those two groups interacting is poor player retention. A snake eating it’s own tail scenario.

You cannot force people to do something they don’t enjoy. And you cannot expect new and inexperienced players to enjoy fighting veteran players.

Just because WolfManBush can take unlimited numbers of losses and keep on playing doesn’t mean all other new players will feel the same way.

Have some common sense and focus on matchmaking.

Have some common sense and don’t release a mode that is restricted or punishing to play.

Do things right the first time or don’t do them at all.

@eastthread51441 said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

Just because WolfManBush can take unlimited numbers of losses and keep on playing doesn’t mean all other new players will feel the same way.

I've always been transparent about the formula of whatever success I have in the game.

I leave the ego out of it and embrace "whatever happens, happens" and I also find the silver lining, the appreciation, within the outcomes of my sessions and battles.

I am a true believer that sailing with good energy will allow me to find quality and sentimental adventure on a regular basis, and it has the entire time I've played this game.

I don't take "unlimited losses". I sink sometimes and I find a way to end the session in an appreciative and optimistic way.

I'm not naturally that way, I choose that way every day and it works out and I believe that it can work out for others as well, no matter their struggles or preferences in the game. There is always a way to make the best out of what exists.

I often tell people, worst day of gaming is the easiest day of my life, and that's entirely true in SoT.

@wolfmanbush

It’s not like you are new or inexperienced though.

You know that it is far more efficient to simply take the loss and just retry again on a new server.

New players getting attacked by veteran crews and solo players getting attacked by full crews.. how do you think they will feel especially if it happens a lot?

They’re going to give up and find a different game to play.

It takes persistence, resilience and just an almost unnatural love for the game and desire to improve to overcome the initial learning curve.

I still do not recommend playing solo after 260 days played.

And I think the retention of new players is highly dependent on how often they sunk and lost progress.

It is true that the more you play the more the sting of being sunk and robbed lessens but to get to that point takes time. Sometimes several hundred hours of time.

When I was new I did my research and watched a ton of YT videos of tips and advice to succeed.

To the players who start out playing as a blank slate with no knowledge of how anything works I guarantee you they likely won’t stick around very long.

The learning curve of Sea of Thieves is no small challenge.

Random matchmaking is just not sustainable. It may have worked when the game first came out and everybody is new but now all it does is push new players away from the game entirely or at least makes them avoid interacting with other crews and fearful of PvP. The exact opposite of what Rare should want to happen.

@eastthread51441 said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

New players getting attacked by veteran crews and solo players getting attacked by full crews.. how do you think they will feel especially if it happens a lot?

They’re going to give up and find a different game to play.

It takes persistence, resilience and just an almost unnatural love for the game and desire to improve to overcome the initial learning curve.

I just chose to not buy into the nonsense around SoT.

It's an adventure game, I've never bought into players being "bad" at the game. How does someone be bad at adventure for not heavily focusing on pvp? That's just silly to me.

I never wanted to be the best at anything, I never wanted to act like a tough guy in an adventure game. I also never wanted to view opponents negatively.

All I wanted was to find things that brought me some joy in some form. All I wanted in the beginning and it's all I want now.

Pvp is just a thing in a game. Me sinking is just a thing in a game, I'll work around both.

I'll joke about being a glutton for punishment but nothing I do in SoT is punishment, I just wanna enjoy the time, and I find a way to allow that to happen. Players can't stop that and my boat comes back after it sinks, I don't even have to pay for it.

@wolfmanbush

You have made it past the point of caring about loss, congratulations you are now indifferent.

It takes time to reach that point.

@eastthread51441 said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

@wolfmanbush

You have made it past the point of caring about loss, congratulations you are now indifferent.

It takes time to reach that point.

It's all about maintenance of the session and the crew, including if people are solo.

A few things that will significantly increase the quality of high seas sessions.

Sus accusations. People that lean pve do it and people that lean pvp do it. If something violates the rules and there is evidence of it then it should be dealt with after the session, not become a main focus during a session. Baseless accusations make this game worse and a session worse.

Blame. People blame a lot. Blame their own crew, themselves, get blamed, blame Rare, blame opponents for playing the game. Blame during a session is a waste of time and brings down morale in the community. There are social spaces around the community to discuss issues with the game, spending time blaming or being blamed on a ship is counterproductive to fun.

Don't focus on toxicity or labeling things toxic. If something needs a report send a report, if someone needs time to get their head right, support that. Focusing on toxicity while sailing is counterproductive.

Don't make/take it personal. People are playing a pirate game, it doesn't need to get any deeper than that.

Revenge is only for gameplay. No lectures, avoid the cringe back and forth on the mics, just play the game.

Move on rather than escalate. Doesn't matter which person started it or which person is worse, end the encounter when it escalates, gets uncomfortable, or puts people in bad situations.

Be the pirate you would want to sail with. We all enjoy being around genuine people that are supportive and honest and consistent. We all want healthy crew relationships and fun sessions.

Be accountable and encourage it in the friend groups. Everybody struggles at different times and sometimes together but everyone that logs in to this game can work on these principles, they help with high seas sessions.

@wolfmanbush

It’s not about blaming anyone other than who’s responsible: Rare.

Rare enables veteran players to prey on noobs.

Rare forces solos to play against all crew sizes.

Rare doesn’t believe that people who do not enjoy PvP deserve access to all of the PvE in the game.

Rare puts hide emotes in the game which even the free one has to be discovered and bought (for free) in the emporium before it can be equipped and used. New players do not know hide emotes are even a thing. They do not know where the common hiding spots are or how to counter tucking.

Rare forces players on a long and difficult PvP grind in order to be able to unlock and equip the skeleton curse or ghost curse.

The bottom line is Rare forces players to do things they may not want to do or enjoy. That’s just bad design.

And random matchmaking has some benefits. Sure it allows for situations such as when content creators hide on an inexperienced crew’s ship while eavesdropping on their conversations. But guess what? When the inexperienced hot mics eventually do get attacked there’s about a 50/50 chance gamers words are said. And that’s why people rightfully say this game breeds toxicity.

You don’t see professional athletes competing against children or even young adults competing against children. It’s just common sense that in any competitive sport or activity that balancing is very important.

Random matchmaking is harmful to the game. The skilled are going to demolish the inexperienced. It’s literally a given. You can watch it happen constantly live on twitch.

First step is to get all of the people who do not enjoy PvP off of the high seas and give them a space to enjoy the entire game how they please.

Second step is changing random matchmaking to intelligent matchmaking. This implies server selection is based upon the combined skill level of all players in a crew and solo players have the option to share a server with other solo players exclusively.

Third step is improving how it feels to play on controller specifically as it relates to being able to track fast moving targets.

Fourth step is improving open crew in an attempt to reduce the occurrence of trolls and people joining and immediately leaving.

Fifth step is improving existing content in the game to make it as attractive and relevant today to go and do as possible.

Sixth step is finding a way to encourage and REWARD cooperation and forming alliances when sailing the high seas.

Seventh step is introducing new and exciting live events that temporarily change up the gameplay to something that hasn’t ever been done before to try out new event ideas and see how they land.

@eastthread51441 said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

@wolfmanbush

It’s not about blaming anyone other than who’s responsible: Rare.

Random matchmaking is harmful to the game. The skilled are going to demolish the inexperienced. It’s literally a given. You can watch it happen constantly live on twitch.

I acknowledge that I'm more and more of a dinosaur in SoT.

How I view the game and the experience and how I play the game fit in with a crowd that is smaller and smaller as time goes on.

I get that people are trying to shift the game more towards their preferences and in some ways they have succeeded and will likely continue to succeed.

There is more to the randomness than just winning and losing though. It brought people together in a unique way during a pandemic. It allowed relationships to be formed in all sorts of random adventure scenarios. It gave access to a unique form of adventure to people in all sorts of different challenging situations and with different types of struggles.

Under all the criticism and disagreement I think that Rare still is due credit for creating one of the best adventure games that has ever existed.

@wolfmanbush

I give Rare credit for creating one of the most imbalanced adventure games that ever existed.

Is it beautiful? Yes.

Is it immersive? Yes.

Does it sound amazing? Yes.

Are there a ton of different cosmetics to dress up your pirate and ship exactly how you want them? Yes.

Is the PvE fun? Yes.

Can the PvP be enjoyable? To me it can.

Is the PvP enjoyable when I encounter a crew I have absolutely no chance of winning against? No, it is not.

Just a practical example.

I have a 5 and 7 year old nephew and niece. They love to play with me.

If we play tag for example, I could win every single time because I’m taller and faster than both of them.

If I were to do that they would quickly be discouraged from continuing to play with me because it’s not fun.

The difference is I obviously care about how my nephew and niece feel and whether or not they are having fun.

Veteran players in Sea of Thieves do not care about the crews they attack. They operate under the guise that it’s a pirate game and sinking other crews is highly encouraged regardless of whether or not the crew they are targeting is new or inexperienced at the game.

That’s why the responsibility falls on Rare to ensure that matchmaking isn’t just random.

In order for both parties to be having fun the skill level disparity has to be minimized as much as possible.

You do that with intelligent matchmaking not random matchmaking.

Raise a support ticket as an accessibility issue instead of a rant on the forums....

@burnbacon said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

New update isn’t out and already we are wanting SS to be a pve server only

My question is. What you gonna do when more and more stuff is released that requires PvP? Those curses or maybe achievements?

Safer Seas IS a PvE only server. There's no other ships in Safer Seas, hence why it's called Safer Seas.

When more stuff is released that REQUIRES PvP, what are people that hate PvP going to do? Not participate in it. Just lose out on the rewards. And that sucks.

Some players, like myself, just cannot handle the stress and anxiety of another ship being on the horizon. All I can think of is what is that ship going to do? Are they cool? Am I in danger? Are they facing towards or away from me? I start freaking myself out, and I can't think about anything else. I can't even think about if my sails are facing the right direction or not.

It's even worse when on an island. I feel like I can't do anything on an island without checking literally every direction for a ship constantly. It takes forever to dig up a piece of treasure because I am just on the lookout the whole time.

Too much time is spent worrying about other players and what their potential is, that I can't even enjoy the game because I'm so stressed and anxious. People may say, "oh you'll get enough experience fighting and doing PvP that you'll learn how to handle most encounters," and stuff like that. But that person just does not understand.

I don't WANT to learn how to PvP. I don't WANT to even be interacting with most players. I've never played the game and looked forward to how I'm going to interact with other players, friendly or hostile. That's probably the thing that I loathe the most.

What I want is this exact game, but more of a single player RPG Adventure or something, and Safer Seas has given me and many other players like me that exact option.

For me, what I want in Safer Seas is access to anything Athena's Fortune related. I got to Pirate Legend last year, and I want to be able to do their voyages, and I want to at least see the loot they have. I've never seen a Chest of Legends, and I probably never will if Rare doesn't give me that opportunity. I've never done the Veil of the Ancients voyage, and I probably never will do that either. Which is really unfortunate, because I've heard that voyage is awesome.

I want to be able to do all of the content in the game, but without the crazy amount of stress and anxiety that is a result of other players even being AROUND me. But idk I guess other players don't want me to have that, which hurts even more because it's basically telling me that everyone else does not want me to have as much fun as them.

I feel like most people that advocate for High Seas are worried that people will leave High Seas and be on Safer Seas. You won't have to worry about that as much anymore, because people that hate PvP have already left last December, and High Seas servers almost always have multiple players on them still.

Idk I just really don't see buffs to Safer Seas being a big deal. It's not gonna take ppl from High Seas, because a lot of people play the game to interact with other pirates. It's really not a competitive game where aw if it's easier to get gold this way then everybody's gonna do it. It's a sandbox game, and people are gonna do what's fun, not what's completely optimal. Look at me, for example. Obviously it would be better and more optimal for gold to play on High Seas, but that's not what's fun for me, so I play Safer Seas. Safer Seas rly just helps me play the game, as there's no other game exactly like Sea of Thieves. There's games that are similar, but not exact.

Safer Seas being better isn't going to just completely change the game like you all seem to think. It's nothing like changing Sonic the Hedgehog to a pig or whatever someone said. It's literally just a place for a different kind of player to play the game. That's it. It's more like having a hardcore and non hardcore realm in a game like World of Warcraft. Each realm happens to cater to a certain player, and each realm has its own unique playstyle. I'm not telling Rare to, like, change the game to a third person battle royale or something drastic like that.

Kinda sucks how y'all are pretty much saying "play a different game then," and "go see a doctor," like whaaat y'all are super not cool. Feels super unwelcoming and mean. Whatever it's just extremely demoralizing knowing all of y'all are basically trying to kick me away from a game we all love. We all just wanna play and have fun, right? The way I want to have fun is not the same, so that makes me entitled, and I should see a doctor? Y'all are actually hurtful. I hope you all get good holiday gifts so that you're not so sour.

@thegrimpreacher said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

@bigmanspook said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

I don't WANT to learn how to PvP. I don't WANT to even be interacting with most players. I've never played the game and looked forward to how I'm going to interact with other players, friendly or hostile. That's probably the thing that I loathe the most.

What I want is this exact game, but more of a single player RPG Adventure or something, and Safer Seas has given me and many other players like me that exact option.

Do people not realize how entitled this makes them sound?

"What I want isn't the game the developers envisioned and created, but something wholly different that caters to my unique play style and nothing else."

This is literally on par with saying, "Hey Epic Games, I want to play Fortnite Battle Royale exactly as designed, but without all those other players trying to kill me all the time. Why are you discriminating against gamers who don't want to fight other players in your EXCLUSIVELY players fighting other players game??"

Not sure where you pulled that out of, but all I suggested was that Athena's Fortune voyages be added to Safer Seas. I didn't say to change the whole entire game. I literally said that "Safer Seas has given me and many other players like me that exact option," you even quoted it, and the quote means that the whole singleplayer RPG adventure thing I said is already a thing. Idk why you went on this whole rant calling me entitled and wanting the devs to just change their whole game just for me. I didn't mean for it to sound like that, but you came at me pretty hostile for something you assumed. It's not like I want to have fun at everyone's else's expense, which is what you seem to think.

Safer Seas is what I've been wanting. The thing you're saying I'm entitled for wanting, is already in the game, and I've been playing it for over 600 hours. Next time, don't just assume what I said.

@burnbacon said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

Safer Seas IS a PvE only server. There's no other ships in Safer Seas, hence why it's called Safer Seas.

No. No it isn't. It just a small half cut version of the actual game. You are missing a lot of content. The name Safer Seas doesn't define itself as PvE Server. :P

PvE is Player versus Environment. In Safer Seas, it's just YOU and the ENVIRONMENT. Yes, Safer Seas is PvE. It has restrictions, yes, but it's still the PvE server in Sea of Thieves.

When more stuff is released that REQUIRES PvP, what are people that hate PvP going to do? Not participate in it. Just lose out on the rewards. And that sucks.

Oh Well?

Yeah, oh well I guess.

Some players, like myself, just cannot handle the stress and anxiety of another ship being on the horizon.

The real world is more stressful than a video game. Many people here can tell you that.

It sure is. I experience it as well.

Some players, like myself, just cannot handle the stress and anxiety of another ship being on the horizon.

Paranoia :P and I get that way too but I dont let it control my actions.

I guess you're better at controlling it than me, and that's okay.

It takes forever to dig up a piece of treasure because I am just on the lookout the whole time.

Get a crew? Heck skeletons bother me while Im busy and I tank the damage just to finish digging :p

"Get a crew?" man why do you have to be so condescending about it? I don't rly want a crew since I honestly enjoy playing the game by myself and having my own goals and all.

I can't even enjoy the game because I'm so stressed and anxious.

This sounds more of a inner personal issue you need to deal with yourself. Maybe your playing to long, or you create these moments just to get this way.
Game didnt lie and the game even warns you of what your getting yourself into.

Yeah, I am a more anxious person, but Safer Seas allows me to chill and play solo, which I enjoy more.

I don't WANT to learn how to PvP. I don't WANT to even be interacting with most players.

So why did you buy the game, knowing what it was giving?

I bought the game because it looked extremely satisfying, and I love sailing a ship around and digging up treasure and fighting megalodons and finding merchant ships and all that. Sea of Thieves isn't just all fighting players. That's the part I hate the most.

What I want is this exact game, but more of a single player RPG Adventure or something, and Safer Seas has given me and many other players like me that exact option.

Black Flag, Pillars of Eternity, Sid Meier's Pirate, Monkey Island. Just to name a few Pirate games that might suit your very needs.

Those games aren't what I want. I don't think that any of those games give me the same satisfaction as Sea of Thieves. I want Safer Seas, and I have it and am enjoying it. Of course, selfishly, the best thing for me would just to have no restrictions Safer Seas, but I don't feel like I need it to have fun. I'm not gonna advocate for no restrictions Safer Seas, because I have a blast with how it is currently. But since they are giving it a little tweak after a year, I could hope for something like maybe getting Athena voyages in Safer Seas in the future.

For me, what I want in Safer Seas is access to anything Athena's Fortune related. I got to Pirate Legend last year,

Okie...do so, but remember. PL is more of a High Seas required adventure. :P

Not sure what you mean here, but yeah you can't get PL in Safer Seas. Had to do it in High Seas by just grinding a fort over and over. I hated it.

I want to be able to do their voyages, and I want to at least see the loot they have.

Drop a voyage, Dive down and the first island will grant you stuff. Do a Athena Raid (Fortress).

Man, I don't want to do it if it's in High Seas. I'm saying I'd like that to be in Safer Seas so that I'll be comfortable enough to actually do it.

I want to be able to do all of the content in the game, but without the crazy amount of stress and anxiety

Relax, drink tea, pop some classic music in and just enjoy the game.

That won't fix my anxiety. I can't just drink tea and listen to music and it goes away. That has the same vibes as "are you depressed? just go outside." Safer Seas gives me access to the content that I want to experience without the stress and anxiety of other pirates, which is exactly what I want.

stress and anxiety that is a result of other players even being AROUND me.

How do you go about School/College/Work/Job/Parenting?
Do you ride a Bus/Commute? Been the the Mall? A lot of people around you. Real life is worse, that stuff is more damaging then what gamers do to you.

I just don't bother everyone as much? Idk, real life isn't rly the same as Sea of Thieves. Nobody will try to sink my ship and steal my treasure in real life. People won't plan to betray me as much in real life. Sure, people in real life can have an actual effect on me, but it's not like everyone's out to get me, which is a feeling I get in Sea of Thieves. Real life is a lot more pleasant. Saying things like "hi" to people doesn't, like, make me have an anxiety attack.

which hurts even more because it's basically telling me that everyone else does not want me to have as much fun as them.

Seems your the one holding the door shut on yourself.

Yeah, I guess that's true. But Safer Seas has allowed me to enjoy the game for 600+ hours. I'd just like a lil bit more from it, mainly Athena's Fortune voyages. It just hurts when there's people that say I should just play a different game, when this game is definitely my most played game on Steam, out of hundreds of games.

I feel like most people that advocate for High Seas are worried that people will leave High Seas and be on Safer Seas.

Think about it. Game is created with player interactions. Been that way for 6+ years. Which is what many people like and reason they bought it.
Work for your treasures and achieve glory.
Safer Seas would just be handing out these treasures like candy. Do you really want a handout with all your stuff? No real achievement there.
Get bored.

EXACTLY! People would get bored of that! So if the Safer Seas mode is boring because there's no challenge, then the people who WANT a challenge WILL swap to High Seas. I'm not saying they should have no restrictions in Safer Seas, but IF they did, I feel like people would still play High Seas because of exactly what you said, they'd "get bored" of it.

IF anything. I rather they increase the damage, spawn rate and make all Npc super difficult to balance it out. You want to be away from players, fine so deal with the npcs and work for your glory.

That could be cool, actually. Make NPCs a lot tougher so it feels more rewarding or smthn in Safer Seas. I do always tend to use the same 2-3 weapons in Safer Seas, so something like that could help change my playstyle in it a bit more.

You won't have to worry about that as much anymore, because people that hate PvP have already left last December

Link to your information and stats showing the numbers.
Last 6 months, the servers I been on, always crowded and never met the same people.

Last 6 months, the servers have been crowded? That actually proves my point. If the PvE'ers are all on Safer Seas but High Seas is still booming, then people swapping over to Safer Seas is really not an issue since there's enough PvP'ers to keep High Seas crowded.

But you've all kinda showed me why I don't wanna play with any of you guys in the High Seas. You guys just seem kinda hostile towards me because I'm having a good time playing Safer Seas, thinking I'm entitled and telling me to see a doctor. You didn't say those things specifically, burnbacon, but man it's just crazy how upset some people got at me.

And hey burnbacon, I mean no hostility towards you or anyone here. I am sorry if I say something rude or mean or condescending or something. I do get pretty frustrated at times like this when it feels like the community is against me, so I might say something dumb. I just wish for us all to have fun playing this game, and I'm glad that a lot of y'all have enough passion for the game that we're even on here talking and commenting. Sry for being cheesy rn, I just know that none of us like hostility or anything like that, and we all have many different opinions about the game and how we wanna play it.

Basically, I'm happy we're all here and talking about Sea of Thieves, because it means that this game has a special place in our hearts. Even though I probably wouldn't wanna play with any of you guys (I'm sure you'd all think the same), it doesn't mean I want you to have bad experiences or bad luck or something. I just wish we might all some day not be at each other's throats like this. The PvP players v. the PvE players gets exhausting.

@r3vanns said in Feedback on upcoming Safer Seas changes:

That said, I'm gonna repeat something I usually say - Insiders have separate character/progress from the main game, so this already exists. If they (Rare) were to use the same logic for HS and SS, I believe this would solve most, if not all, forum fights regarding unlocked SS content.

YES! That would actually be so perfect, for me at least. I heard Cliff the Story Guy suggest that on his stream around when SS first released, and I thought it was a great idea. I can only hope Rare does something like that.