Hunting Spears are flawed

  • I will preface this post by saying that I am biased as I haven't done much PvP in the last year or so, so this is coming from a mostly PvE player, I have not used the spears in PvP yet and have also not gone out to look for them on islands.

    I feel that the hunting spears are trying to do way too much and suffer for it. In my opinion, the ideas behind them are good. Great, even. But it feels as though they were initially two separate things that got merged.
    My main issue is mostly in how they are handled as items. So, you can buy five hunting spears at each Hunter's Call location. And as well, they cost 250 for one singular spear. Yes, you buy them individually. There are 7 outposts and 8 seaposts, for a total of 15. So on the whole map you can buy 75 spears. It's not an incredibly small number, but the amount of sailing you would have to do is immense. In addition, they are world items (akin to the Trident of Dark tides) which means you can't carry more than one at a time and they cannot be stored in crates or barrels. Furthermore, another issue that pops up from their status as a world item is that you cannot get on a cannon while holding one. I suppose that issue could be mitigated with larger crews having a designated spear loader.

    So, what do I propose for changes? I have a few ideas of potential changes that could be done.
    1.) Make spears an inventory item with a very low inventory capacity.
    I think this would be the simplest to do out of my ideas. It would make them easier to manage and to load as well, your ship doesn't have to be a pincushion and in theory might actually make them a little better for PvP because they would need to be put away not with the press of a single button, but you would need a storage crate or barrel to put them in. Slight edit for clarity: The "low inventory capacity" would be something akin to the bear traps.
    2.) Instead of singular spears, make them a spear pack.
    Another way of handling this could be making spear packs. They would retain their status as a world item and the tedium that comes along with it, but perhaps they could hold five spears at a time with the option of refilling them via singular spears that were thrown by other players. This would - in my opinion - make them more viable for combat away from the ship or wherever else you would be storing your spears.
    3.) Split them up.
    This way would potentially require the most effort both initially and over time, but as it stands it is the option that I would like to see the most. My idea is to make the hunting spears into a weapon - or at least a much more plentiful throwable. I personally don't think they ever needed the option to be loaded into cannons. If they would be turned into a weapon, they could perhaps deal damage on par with the flintlock, but have their damage doubled or maybe even tripled against wildlife and beastly foes, namely all wildlife, sharks, megalodons, krakens, ocean crawlers and sirens. This would give them a specific niche that no other weapon has which would be cool to see. Of course, I am not forgetting about the wedging into holes and stopping them from being repaired. That could be turned into a new very limited type of cannon ammunition, similar to scattershot.

    Thank you for reading my post through!

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  • @byron-wise said in Hunting Spears are flawed:

    There are 7 outposts and 8 seaposts, for a total of 15. So on the whole map you can buy 75 spears.

    They have considered this and, from what I have seen, they are tied to the NPC. So if you buy off Adelrick at Ancient Spire Outpost or Stephen's Spoils, for example, you cannot buy off him again at the other location. So that brings that number back down to 8 locations, so 40 spears.

  • @realstyli I haven't actually considered that or tried that, so thank you for very much for your insight! ^^
    And I suppose it does make my complaint about their scarcity even more valid. Though - I do undestand that their scarcity is specifically a product of their PvP implications.

  • I really really wanted to like spears but outside of their appearance I don't like them at all and they aren't useful enough to be a part of my adventuring.

    Slow, clunky, it's a chore to buy a few and then move them to the boat and then get scammed most of the time, then try to get unscammed, then they just feel like an idea more than a viable feature/tool/weapon.

    Would have much preferred it to be a weapon slot type of situation.

    Once the comms are done I won't find any use for them unless they get changed around quite a bit.

    I'm hopeful that they will be cool down the road for real adventure use.

  • From the PvP perspective spears are completely useless. First of all, you can't even take them into hourglass. Meaning you can only ever use them when defending, or just generally playing on a server... So much for "tools not rules" when the tools have a "no hg" rule.

    Secondly, the spears aren't just a throwable or a cannonball type or anything. No, you have to get off your cannon/wheel and physically pick them up. Which means that it isn't ever really going to be worth grabbing unless a boarder is already running around your ship.

    Which brings be to my third point, there's like no reason to ever shoot it out of a cannon. Again, you have to physically pick it up which absolutely sucks. But in return for spending your time grabbing and loading it you get to do the whole of 1 tier 1 worth damage!! Which is like 4x less than a scattershot that nobody uses already 💀 It's literally a whole 2 tiers worse than a basic cannonball. And sure, if they pull it out then yeah it does a T3, but there's no forcing factor to make them pull it out!! And maybe you're thinking "let me shoot the other person instead of of using it for damage" which is a fair line of reasoning. Except for having to spend like 2x longer to shoot one, you still only one shot them. A cannon ball has the exact same damage with a massive splash radius for extra damage and keeping them off cannon.

    And the fourth bad thing is the fact it sticks into stuff. Now this doesn't matter for most people, but all the items that persist after usage get banned from competitive events because of the lag build up it can cause. So we can't even use it due to performance...

    To actually fix this (on the PvP side) I would make it not persist, make it act as a better harpoon line that can be used to board if shot from a cannon (letting it have a cool forcing function for whether or not to remove it), and turn it into a throwable or weapon instead of a world item. Oh and they have to be allowed in HG.

  • @fysics3037 Thank you very much for your insight on the PvP side of things! It is very appreciated!

    I did think that they would be lost on diving, so thank you for confirming that as well.

    And yeah, that sounds incredibly bad. See, I thought that the whole reason for them being so incredibly limited and tedious to work with was because they were incredibly good as a PvP tool, but from the sound of it that isn't even the case.

    Again, thank you for your perspective!

  • Sounds like someone met a player and poked there ship full of spears and hated having to pull it out and then patch the hole XD

    I’m glad they aren’t allowed in HG (besides third party or defending) makes you wonder. Maybe you should defend more? So you can use them.

    And in PvP over all. They are deadly. It hasn’t been a week so nobody has fully tried them yet. Or found…how to use them. ;)

    Nothing beats throwing a spear at a player and poking them while they are on fire.

  • @burnbacon they are not deadly bro. Literally everyone at the top end agrees they are useless 💀Peak design!

  • I believe the spears will get the disney staff treatment, a PvE thing, mainly.

  • @itz-majman ironically, the disney sticks are broken in PvP, just nobody thinks about it. But yeah, it sucks that the spears are so incredibly mid. We've gotten daggers, DB, blowpipe, and now spear all "PvP additions" (at least according to people on these forums) but completely useless/active disadvantages in PvP. And all of them could have been useful with minor changes/reworks 😭 And with Rare's record, we aren't seeing those touched for 5 years, and when they are they will get actively worse to play

  • I came here to say pretty much exactly the same thing you did in the original post. My only difference was simply using the throwable inventory, counting them along with firebombs and blunderbombs. In fact, they were referred to as "new throwables" in the trailer which had me assuming that this was the case. In general I think it just makes alot more sense. When one gets lodged you can pick it up as you do now and it just gets stowed in your throwable inventory again if you have space. Like picking up a plank or fruit lodged into the sand on a beach.

  • I have completed all the hunting spear challenges, kill 15 sharks, hit an enemy ship 15 times and a meg, kraken 15 times. I have unlocked the two new swords from the shop, but not the daggers, which require completing all the hunting spear challenges.
    Has this happened to anyone else?

  • @marcus-pery said in Hunting Spears are flawed:

    I have completed all the hunting spear challenges, kill 15 sharks, hit an enemy ship 15 times and a meg, kraken 15 times. I have unlocked the two new swords from the shop, but not the daggers, which require completing all the hunting spear challenges.
    Has this happened to anyone else?

    at first I thought it was a bug like season 14 but then I just figured that they probably have more comms on the horizon for it.

    I dunno if they have cleared that up but it would be helpful if they did at some point because a lot of people are gonna either assume bug or just be confused in general.

    If boars are gonna get added I'd assume there would be some comms involved with that.

  • @wolfmanbush Oh you're right, I forgot about the boars, surely there will be some challenges to complete for them too. Thanks

  • @burnbacon

    There’s no reason to pull them out of a hole, you can just leave them in for minimal pressure, or wait for them to get broken anyways

    And there’s no reason to use them against players since you could just throw down 5 knives instead which throw faster and stay on your ship with dives

  • It doesn’t make sense that you can’t dive with spears when the meg dive voyage is coming next month. How is this a thing?

  • @fysics3037 sagte in Hunting Spears are flawed:

    From the PvP perspective spears are completely useless. First of all, you can't even take them into hourglass. Meaning you can only ever use them when defending, or just generally playing on a server... So much for "tools not rules" when the tools have a "no hg" rule.

    Secondly, the spears aren't just a throwable or a cannonball type or anything. No, you have to get off your cannon/wheel and physically pick them up. Which means that it isn't ever really going to be worth grabbing unless a boarder is already running around your ship.

    Which brings be to my third point, there's like no reason to ever shoot it out of a cannon. Again, you have to physically pick it up which absolutely sucks. But in return for spending your time grabbing and loading it you get to do the whole of 1 tier 1 worth damage!! Which is like 4x less than a scattershot that nobody uses already 💀 It's literally a whole 2 tiers worse than a basic cannonball. And sure, if they pull it out then yeah it does a T3, but there's no forcing factor to make them pull it out!! And maybe you're thinking "let me shoot the other person instead of of using it for damage" which is a fair line of reasoning. Except for having to spend like 2x longer to shoot one, you still only one shot them. A cannon ball has the exact same damage with a massive splash radius for extra damage and keeping them off cannon.

    And the fourth bad thing is the fact it sticks into stuff. Now this doesn't matter for most people, but all the items that persist after usage get banned from competitive events because of the lag build up it can cause. So we can't even use it due to performance...

    To actually fix this (on the PvP side) I would make it not persist, make it act as a better harpoon line that can be used to board if shot from a cannon (letting it have a cool forcing function for whether or not to remove it), and turn it into a throwable or weapon instead of a world item. Oh and they have to be allowed in HG.

    You are completely omitting the fact that the lock must first be pulled out, otherwise the hole will remain and cannot be repaired.

    And if you remove the spear, it becomes a Tier 3 hole on the spot.
    That is, if you consider it useless for PvP.
    I don't find that an actually useful statement.

    Because you can't use them for Hourglass, which is good, but for open world PvP and barely being able to repair your ship or getting 3 tier holes is definitely a danger.

    And if you don't recognise scattershot's strength in ship combat, you might not be as much of a blatant PvPer as you think.

  • @naoenagi bruv I was a top player, one of the best on NAW. I would actually doubt there is a single thing about PvP or balance I haven't already thought of, tried, or experienced. You glossed over the "there's no forcing factor part". It's literally in bold text, to make it clear that part is a key detail. The tier 1 hole is not a forcing factor. A single person can easily bilge one half (because only one side faces the enemy ship in combat) of the ship fully filled with tier 1 holes. It's not even like a challenge to do that. I never said the scattershot was useless (which it is) I said nobody uses it (which is justified). And for why it's useless? Well the damage doesn't stack up with repeated shots. It goes up to (I believe my memory is foggy) a tier 2 (on the 5 tier scale), which is a fancy way of saying it does almost no damage. When a person who shoots a single cannon ball with way more range, knock back, and player/ship damage can get like double the "flow" out of a single cannon ball the scattershot becomes pretty useless. Is there like one or two extremely niche use cases you won't ever encounter in a match? sure. Does the same apply for the spear? I guess. But does that mean anything? Absolutely not.

  • @byron-wise fun fact, they also have terrible hitreg and don't honor server authoritative hitmarkers so they just get you killed if you attempt to use them

  • Spears are disappointing, slow, clunky, limited throwing range, have to manually load into cannons and I don't notice them doing any increased damage to regular or ancient megalodons and yes like the OP said they need their own barrel or some way to be stored somehow.

  • I don't notice them doing any increased damage to regular or ancient megalodons

    They Do, That the whole point of them anyways, for Hunting them Sea beasts and skeletons. Almost a one shot kill when throwing them at full charge or firing from cannon.

    Took 25 (with blunderbuss) and fought a Skeleton Lord, like using the Trident. Going down with ease and Aiming isn't horrible, it like the throwing Knife. Almost Overkill... Tho I wish I could pick them up after throwing and hitting a target that didnt die.

    It best to load in cannons, does extra damage than simply throwing. (idk why people havnt noticed)
    Charging Megs stop the second you hit them with a cannons spear.

    Are players here having PC issues that may make the Spear appear not working? (Xbox user) and I found using the Spears against much easier with ancient megs. Quicker. Not even a struggle anymore as long they dont miss xD

  • I am not sure, my hunting spears are the equivalent of a pistol bullet. I shot a regular meg 3 times with spear out of the cannon then still had to blast it with like 8 more cannonballs. I used around 5-7 on an ancient meg with a duo crew and still had use like 80 cannonballs to kill it. I've been experimenting on throwing them at critters around the world and can't find a use for it, unless I am getting a lot of hit reg that fools the authorative hit markers?

  • @karkona They seem to do about the same damage as cannonballs. I was out trying to do the Meg commendation yesterday, just slowly cruising down south for about ~1h40mins and the regular meg died in 14 spears, mostly from cannons - I believe I threw like 2 or 3. Actually, after seeing your post I got out on the seas to get another meg. And by my count it took 14 cannonballs as well - though I could be off by like +/- 1 or 2.

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