Forum Updates

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @williamherschel said in Forum Updates:

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    As I have told you before, twice, Rare wanted to make this change because they thought it was best, and are listening to feedback and working on ways to improve it. B

    So if the feedback is almost universally that people do not like the preview feature. Is Rare considering removing it? What is the timeline on this?

    There's still no talk about completely removing/reverting back to the old format/layout. I'm not sure if by timeline you're referring to when the next change will come, or when they may consider just reverting back, but for now I don't have a timeline for either.

    Now before anyone states that it's 'killing the forums' I would like to state that since the change there has been no statistical difference in forum use.

    Would Rare be willing to make these numbers public? What sort of date ranges are we talking about here? Have you seen the numbers yourself, or did someone imply this in a general sense on the deckhand board?

    This was asked by myself this morning when we were briefly discussing the forum changes , this thread, and our thoughts again with Rare. We weren't provided any hard data and nor will it be provided to us or publicly, but the question was answered by Rare directly and not just a sense or assumption.

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    @williamherschel said in Forum Updates:

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    As I have told you before, twice, Rare wanted to make this change because they thought it was best, and are listening to feedback and working on ways to improve it. B

    So if the feedback is almost universally that people do not like the preview feature. Is Rare considering removing it? What is the timeline on this?

    There's still no talk about completely removing/reverting back to the old format/layout. I'm not sure if by timeline you're referring to when the next change will come, or when they may consider just reverting back, but for now I don't have a timeline for either.

    I guess I just don't understand what sort of feedback Rare is looking for here. The issue is with the feature set itself. With all of the changes there is not really any half measures or compromises that even seem plausible. You either like the preview feature or you don't. What sort of middle ground or feedback are they even looking for? I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I'm just getting the vibe that this layout is here to stay and that suggestions for feedback is merely to keep up the ruse that somebody is listening, which is like basic marketing... but also just kind of sad that we've reached this point as a community.

    Now before anyone states that it's 'killing the forums' I would like to state that since the change there has been no statistical difference in forum use.

    Would Rare be willing to make these numbers public? What sort of date ranges are we talking about here? Have you seen the numbers yourself, or did someone imply this in a general sense on the deckhand board?

    This was asked by myself this morning when we were briefly discussing the forum changes , this thread, and our thoughts again with Rare. We weren't provided any hard data and nor will it be provided to us or publicly, but the question was answered by Rare directly and not just a sense or assumption.

    I appreciate that you asked this question. Truly. I just don't buy the response. Without date ranges the suggestion that there has not been a downturn in activity seems pretty meaningless. I mean almost certainly (as with most titles) there are less people using the forum now than there were at launch. Perhaps if the ranges were the month pre update and weeks post update, then perhaps those analytics are accurate.

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @williamherschel said in Forum Updates:

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    @williamherschel said in Forum Updates:

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    As I have told you before, twice, Rare wanted to make this change because they thought it was best, and are listening to feedback and working on ways to improve it. B

    So if the feedback is almost universally that people do not like the preview feature. Is Rare considering removing it? What is the timeline on this?

    There's still no talk about completely removing/reverting back to the old format/layout. I'm not sure if by timeline you're referring to when the next change will come, or when they may consider just reverting back, but for now I don't have a timeline for either.

    I guess I just don't understand what sort of feedback Rare is looking for here. The issue is with the feature set itself, with all of the changes that people don't like there is not really any half measures or compromises that even seem plausible. You either like the preview feature or you don't. What sort of middle ground or feedback are they even looking for? I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but I'm just getting the vibe that this layout is here to stay and that suggestions for feedback is merely to keep up the ruse that somebody is listening, which is like basic marketing... but also just kind of sad that we've reached this point as a community.

    The feedback such as the following is great because it provides something to work on within the current layout:
    kyros-darkbeard said in Forum Updates:

    Yeah perhaps the biggest issue with the preview format is that it just takes up way too much real estate. Either the font should be scaled down, the amount of preview text reduced....

    nyadc85 said in What has happened to the forums?!:

    This really is a terrible cluttered mess...
    This is way too busy and feels totally disorganized,

    Feedback like this, although not positive, allows the team something to work on, decluttering, making it less busy, changing font sizes etc.

    Now before anyone states that it's 'killing the forums' I would like to state that since the change there has been no statistical difference in forum use.

    Would Rare be willing to make these numbers public? What sort of date ranges are we talking about here? Have you seen the numbers yourself, or did someone imply this in a general sense on the deckhand board?

    This was asked by myself this morning when we were briefly discussing the forum changes , this thread, and our thoughts again with Rare. We weren't provided any hard data and nor will it be provided to us or publicly, but the question was answered by Rare directly and not just a sense or assumption.

    I appreciate that you asked this question. Truly. I just don't buy the response. Without date ranges the suggestion that there has not been a downturn in activity seems pretty meaningless. I mean almost certainly (as with most titles) there are less people using the forum now than there were at launch. Perhaps if the ranges were the month pre update and weeks post update, then perhaps those analytics are accurate.

    This is perfectly fair, you don't have to believe myself or Rare as ultimately there's nothing I can say/do/show that will make you believe anything, nor do I want to force you to either. This is purely my assumption, but it's a pretty educated one, but it's no doubt that the forums were more lively around and shortly after launch than they are now. When I asked the question, although I didn't specify, I believe the timeframe was smaller than all the way back to launch.

  • Lucid Stew
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    Now before anyone states that it's 'killing the forums' I would like to state that since the change there has been no statistical difference in forum use.

    False. Data culled from Wayback Machine:

    posts per day in period for Sea of Thieves Game Discussion group

    present - 9 days ago: 650
    9 -20 days ago: 1136
    20-27 days ago: 1286
    27-33 days ago: 1250
    33-41 days ago: 1300
    41-54 days ago: 2543
    54-61 days ago: 1586
    61-68 days ago: 1357

    The blip about 2 months ago is from Hungering Deep. Posts are clearly off since the changes. Based on the average of the last 9 days, posts are off by about 49%. Posts declined immediately as can be seen in the ~12% drop in the period of 9-20 days ago despite less than half of that period occurring after the changes. I invite Rare to rebut these statistics.

  • M4dBoOmr
    Captain
    Insider
    Founder

    i really dont like the forum changes, it was easy to access as it was (just as any regular forum) the preview is bad since I, tend to read a message because of the topic and not a preview... it is convoluted now

    at least give us an option to turn this on/off

  • Mighty Ace123

    @m4dkraut said in Forum Updates:

    i really dont like the forum changes, it was easy to access as it was (just as any regular forum) the preview is bad since I, tend to read a message because of the topic and not a preview... it is convoluted now

    at least give us an option to turn this on/off

    Agreed.

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @lucid-stew said in Forum Updates:

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    Now before anyone states that it's 'killing the forums' I would like to state that since the change there has been no statistical difference in forum use.

    False. Data culled from Wayback Machine:

    posts per day in period for Sea of Thieves Game Discussion group

    present - 9 days ago: 650
    9 -20 days ago: 1136
    20-27 days ago: 1286
    27-33 days ago: 1250
    33-41 days ago: 1300
    41-54 days ago: 2543
    54-61 days ago: 1586
    61-68 days ago: 1357

    The blip about 2 months ago is from Hungering Deep. Posts are clearly off since the changes. Based on the average of the last 9 days, posts are off by about 49%. Posts declined immediately as can be seen in the ~12% drop in the period of 9-20 days ago despite less than half of that period occurring after the changes. I invite Rare to rebut these statistics.

    Thank you for doing this. I didn't even consider using the wayback machine. Something is definitely off. They're not being upfront about this change.

    It also continues to be weird how much Rare uses Reddit instead of the official forums.

  • Mc rossco
    Marauder
    Insider

    Seems like rare is killing off their forums.

  • Crimsonraziel
    Master
    Insider

    Please Rare add some indicators for edited posts. Show how often it was edited and when the last edit was. I thought this is basic for modern forums.

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    Weeks continue to go by, and Rare is clearly not listening to our feedback.

  • Admiral RRRSole

    @crimsonraziel said in Forum Updates:

    Please Rare add some indicators for edited posts. Show how often it was edited and when the last edit was. I thought this is basic for modern forums.

    Agreed on the "last edited" time stamp but there doesn't need to be a count of how often a post has been edited.
    Although I proof-read everything before I submit my comments, I still find errors especially when I come back to that post after it's been up-voted or, even worse, quoted.
    For example I just noticed and fixed a spelling mistake in a post I made two days ago. It doesn't change the context of my post, the sentence just makes more sense now.
    I can tweak anyone of my posts a dozen times over, due to typos and spelling mistakes because I'm not good at proof reading my own words and the keys are faded on this keyboard so I make plenty of typos. lol

    However I can understand your concern that somebody could possibly re-write an entire post after it's been up voted.
    Although having the "last edited" time stamp would make little difference unless the up-vote was also time stamped.

    I know Facebook used to have a feature to see what the original comment was before it was edited. I don't know if that still exists or not.
    edit: That feature is available to moderators of most public forums.

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @williamherschel said in Forum Updates:

    Weeks continue to go by, and Rare is clearly not listening to our feedback.

    All the feedback has been passed along to the web team. With the current emphasis being on Cursed Sails the team has been focused on the feedback areas there such as the timings, crows next location, replay-ability, difficulty, among other aspects. They've also heard the feedback that they're not active enough on the forums and there has been much more developer interaction here over the past few days.

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @crimsonraziel @Admiral-RRRSole It is something that we can see you are correct, I agree that having a little 'edited' sign in the bottom corner of the post could be beneficial.

  • Admiral RRRSole

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi Oh my, you guys must see a hell of a lot in my posts. lol
    Just proof read my last comment and I see where punctuation is required.
    Please forgive me but I'm a spelling & grammar police when it comes to my own posts. lol :o)

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    @williamherschel said in Forum Updates:

    Weeks continue to go by, and Rare is clearly not listening to our feedback.

    All the feedback has been passed along to the web team. With the current emphasis being on Cursed Sails the team has been focused on the feedback areas there such as the timings, crows next location, replay-ability, difficulty, among other aspects.

    Just so we're clear, you're saying that the devlopers working on Cursed Sails also makeup the web team? I don't understand why improvements to cursed sails have anything to do with the feedback that has been given regarding the forum update.

    They've also heard the feedback that they're not active enough on the forums and there has been much more developer interaction here over the past few days.

    Where have they been active? I must have missed this? During the alpha I started following a lot of Rare developers so I could see their posts in my notifications window. I have not seen any in the past week, but it's entirely possible that I've missed them.

    Lastly, I also want to point out that you still haven't responded to @Lucid-Stew's data that directly refutes Rare's claim that there has not been a drop in activity on the official forum.

  • DHG IXxRMACxXI
    Marauder
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @williamherschel Correct, at times some members from certain teams can be loaned out to other teams to support where needed.

    Following users does not notify of posts made, it only notifies of threads being made. Some users that have posted in the last few days are @TEDDY-25, @Sonicbobjr, and @zZ-Emerz-Zz.

    As for @Lucid-Stew's post it does show stats for one of the categories and would be interested in seeing statistics over all categories (cursed sails aside).

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    Following users does not notify of posts made, it only notifies of threads being made. Some users that have posted in the last few days are @TEDDY-25, @Sonicbobjr, and @zZ-Emerz-Zz.

    Right, truthfully I've been less active over the past week due to my current work schedule. Looking at the posts by those three, it looks like they have been more active. I commend them for that, and I appreciate this info. Some forum feedback, it'd be nice if I could be notified about all developer posts (perhaps a different way of following specific users).

    As for @Lucid-Stew's post it does show stats for one of the categories and would be interested in seeing statistics over all categories (cursed sails aside).

    @Lucid-Stew could likely provide those numbers.

  • Lucid Stew
    Founder

    @dhg-ixxrmacxxi said in Forum Updates:

    As for @Lucid-Stew's post it does show stats for one of the categories and would be interested in seeing statistics over all categories (cursed sails aside).

    The stats are for all of Sea of Thieves Game Discussion, which includes all subforums. Combined, they constitute 84% of all posts on this forum.

  • Lucid Stew
    Founder

    To expand a bit, and fill any gaps that may exist, I went back and checked all posts. My only methodology here is that I did not use data for time frames of less than 7 days. The data from Wayback Machine doesnt come in neat, weekly amounts. Sometimes it's 2 days, 5 days, 8 days. The smallest period in this set is 7 days. The largest is 14. Looking at the data from a perspective of 7 day periods vs. 14 days periods, if there is any skewing, it's negligible enough to dismiss, although I honestly can't see any. If anything, the short periods skew high, but that observation could just as easily be me seeing what I want to see. This goes back to the end of March when the forums were reorganized then. Anyway, here are the numbers:

    --posts per day in the period for the entire forum-- (period:posts per day)
    7/23-7/30: 900
    7/9-7/23: 1121
    7/2-7/9: 1471
    6/18-7/2: 1486
    6/5-6/18: 1631
    5/22-6/5: 1754
    5/15-5/22: 2229
    5/7-5/15: 1850
    4/24-5/7: 2546
    4/17-4/24: 2943
    4/9-4/17: 3438
    3/27-4/9: 6108

    5/15-5/22 is the only outlier in a steady drop since release. Might be the run up to Hungering Deep, might be a fluke. It's also possible 5/7-5/15 is fluke on the low end. The forum changed on 7/16, I believe. That period has a 350 post/day drop from the previous period. That's the largest absolute drop in 2 months. It also does not appear to be an aberration, as posts continued to decline in the period that followed. The decline over the 28 day period starting on 7/2 is the second largest in terms of percentage for periods of that length, and only behind the beginning period where use caved immediately after spiking wildly due to the release of the game. The numbers are a bit different, but it's also worth mentioning that this is the slowest the forum has been at least back to a forum reorganization that took place in February, and possibly for all of 2018. Also worth mentioning that the data from 7/30 to present is off for some reason, as posts would be at a 71/day clip if the data were correct. Highly doubtful that is correct, as it would represent a drop in usage of over 90%. The preview thing may be annoying, but there's just no way it would drop by that much.

  • ElectricApe

    @lucid-stew
    That'd be down to a lot of long time & very active forum members being banned & because this game community is toxic!
    It is split right down the middle with PC vs Xbox & also with those that acknowledge the game has some serious issues & those that blindly defend it!
    Rare is killing it's playerbase by drip feeding content & forcing friendly alliances. Crossplay is doing a good job of getting players to leave as well.
    Congrats on reaching 5million players Rare, it's just a shame 4.5million left straight away ;)

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @DHG-IXxRMACxXI, so does Rare actually plan on synthesizing any of the criticisms in this thread? I'm coming around to enjoying the previews... The best part is when people embed a youtube video and the preview displays the top third of the rectangle. It really improves the forum....

  • FiresidePlace38

    Thanks for the update! There are many good changes!

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    @DHG-IXxRMACxXI

    So is Rare actually going to listen to any of the feedback about how this update was/is bad for the forums, or am I essentially right that they don't actually care, and they are leaving these forums for dead.

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    @williamherschel Well it does fit in with the current theme of having a notification system that doesn't actually notify you unless its due to an upvote and not an actual reply that might add to any conversation, nor do they want you to get notified when a topic you are interested in (watching) gets a new message.

    The forum is a metaphor for the state of Sea of Thieves.

  • FiresidePlace38

    Thanks for the update! There are many good changes!

    [Mod Edited]

  • KattTruewalker
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder
    Deckhand

    @firesideplace38

    Ahoy there,

    Please don't add unidentifiable links to the bottom of your posts as this is against the forum and Xbox rules.

    As a result I've removed the links from this and your previous posts.

    Advertising
    Making topics or posts in order to drive traffic or boost sales is strictly forbidden. Doing so will result in a permanent ban from the Forums.

    https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/legal/codeofconduct

  • WilliamHerschel
    Castaway
    Insider
    Founder

    So lets talk about this forum update feedback thread. Basically, Rare doesn't care. As I stated when they made the change. The nearly unanimous feedback that this update was unwanted and a mess is just shouts into the oblivion. Thanks Rare!

  • D3ADST1CK
    Vanguard
    Insider
    Founder

    Don't worry, Rare is listening to feedback!

  • LIFEWCOKE
    Commander
    Boatswain
    Founder

    I love how RMAC just noped right on out of this thread and stopped responding 2 months ago.

    I'll go ahead and post a reply about the current status in his place though.

    "All the feedback has been passed along to the web team. With the current emphasis being on Cursed Sails Forsaken Shores, the team has been focused on the feedback areas there such as the timings, crows next location, replay-ability, difficulty, among other aspects. They've also heard the feedback that they're not active enough on the forums and there has been much more developer interaction here over the past few days."

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