Ladder Launching - Developer Update

  • Hey Everyone,

    While our Mid-Season update to Season 15 will be arriving later this week, I want to take you on a little journey behind the scenes and share an update on the particularly spicy topic (when is it ever not...) of Game Exploits.
    The timing on this one might feel a tad reactive given the hot-topic discussions some of you may have seen recently, but with the team having made a bit of a breakthrough I wanted to share an update.

    I've shared updates regularly in our videos on the efforts of our dedicated Game Health team. This team started off small and grew in size over the last year, with their initial focus being very much behind the scenes to begin hardening our game security from common third-party exploits with various protections for common issues.
    Most recently this team has been the one spearheading our recent Performance Bash, delivering Client and Server performance improvements across our recent updates, which we're already seeing improve the game experience for everyone.

    While Game Performance and Game Security will continue to be long-running workstreams, this team has now begun to look at other areas of the experience and where improvements need to be made. One clear pain point that has been on our hit list for way too long has been a commonly used movement exploit often called Ladder Launching/Funny Launch (Basically any scenario that resulted in players becoming stuck inside a physics object and then being ejected from it) . I called out this issue all the way back in November 23's SoT News and this continues to be a sizeable movement exploit that was well and truly breaking our game design and high on our hit list, and while that's honestly an uncomfortably long time ago since I called it out - this is the first area the team began to dig into.

    Now, let's take you all behind the scenes a little. In a game like Sea of Thieves, the use of Unreal's PhysX engine is fairly significant from the intricate buoyancy profiles of our various ships, to keeping players stable on networked floating platforms with other players - our game physics is always being pushed hard. In the past, we've classed any physics-related movement exploits as incredibly high risk as small changes can often have wide-reaching side effects and come with unwanted performance impacts that are hard to diagnose.

    This cluster of 'launching' issues were parked waiting for some specialist experience and a few weeks ago the team began exploring this in earnest, looking for ways for us to address this without a wider physics impact to the experience. After a few weeks of tinkering and internal testing we feel confident we have a solution here that safely isolates the issue and mitigates the velocity players are ejected when colliding with areas of the ship which is where the root of the issue was.

    As we prepared to enter Insiders for initial testing this week, we saw the discussion of 'launches' become a hot-topic over our recent community weekend with a heated debate on whether this was indeed an exploit/cheat/unfair tactics. While I've stated frequently that game exploits are not considered bannable offences, these various 'launches' allowed players to gain a significant movement advantage on their opponents well outside of the designed game mechanics of the world - there should have been no doubt that this was a game exploit.

    With this fix heading into Insiders this week and the recent hot-topic nature of this discussion, I wanted to lift the lid on this and share our plans for addressing this issue. We'll spend some time now testing with Insiders and ensure we can safely control this change and if we gain confidence in the implementation will schedule this for the next available game update.

    As always, you can get involved with testing in Insiders by heading to seaofthieves.com/insider, we'd appreciate your support in helping us build confidence in nailing this issue! Thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully this shares some context on why this has been such a challenging space for us to tackle, we're excited to continue working in this space though and our Game Health team is eager to begin hitting some of these long-standing issues within the core experience.

    Drew 'Sonicbob' Stevens

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  • In-before everyone immediately pins this reaction to be as the result of a single streamer, instead of the daily complaints about the exploit,
    And it being long-long-overdue a fix...
    But that would never happen though. People are smart.

  • @taaaamas said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    In-before everyone immediately pins this reaction to be as the result of a single streamer, instead of the daily complaints about the exploit,
    And it being long-long-overdue a fix...
    But that would never happen though. People are smart.

    Honestly, the timing is merely coincidental here - but i know how it's going to look to some.
    We could have held back the fix and avoided this correlation but honestly we've lived with the impact of this issue for far too long already. Now that we have a potential fix we just need to get this into wider testing and iron out any edge cases so we can put this issue to bed!

  • Great to see launches getting some specialist attention!

    It can be pretty frustrating to be at the recieving end of this.

    It's pretty hard to predict and react to a ladder launch board in some cases since it can be so quick and often comes from unexpected angles.

    Thanks for the update. I really like when we get little details of the causes / complexity of these issues/exploits, I find it interesting.

  • @sonicbob said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    @taaaamas said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    In-before everyone immediately pins this reaction to be as the result of a single streamer, instead of the daily complaints about the exploit,
    And it being long-long-overdue a fix...
    But that would never happen though. People are smart.

    Honestly, the timing is merely coincidental here - but i know how it's going to look to some.
    We could have held back the fix and avoided this correlation but honestly we've lived with the impact of this issue for far too long already. Now that we have a potential fix we just need to get this into wider testing and iron out any edge cases so we can put this issue to bed!

    Aye lol
    Well here's hoping it'll finally get fixed up with these patches!

  • It certainly appears SOT is getting a massive cleanup on code that has been problematic. While there are occasional hiccups, I am glad to see game health receive a priority. Even in an optimal world, it's impossible to fix everything that is a trouble child in one pass. I suspect that the planned refactoring will be a massive undertaking. Adjustments to the game's physics engine indeed carries risk and growing pains. However, I think it will be overall positive for the player experience to get this issue knocked out. I will always attempt to advocate for changes that can improve PvP quality and my opinion is that this exploit was negative.

    Seeing Rare representatives be available for discussion and feedback about game health on socials has been huge. I have been critical of how communication has been, historically, but I think that this open approach is positive. The job is difficult and I'm glad to see some folks put their head out and pick up the challenge.

    Thanks, as always, for transparency. I look forward to getting hands on with the changes as they become available for us players.

  • Never used this exploit so not much lost, btw, does anyone else experience low fps spikes for some reason ? Mostly in fight or when any banners appear

  • W fix!

    Also that upfront transparency is very very much appreciated

  • @Sonicbob I dont know if you know but there is some black screen spots across the sea on islands. Like reapers cage at Ancient Spire Outpost.Will they affect because of this change? Black screen spots are much faster than swimming to mermaid sometimes.

  • @lucas5798798 yes, almost every fight I get into my frames drop like crazy and it becomes almost unplayable. Its only against other players though, not PvE. This has been happening for months now for me

  • I normally never have issues with 'exploits' as long as it isn't really a massive breaking advantage.

    But ladder launching is the opposite, I never bothered to learn risk of getting banned/patched out.

    Travelling further than cannons while not making a sound, you might as well download cheats for the game that offers fly hacks at this point.
    Glad its going to get patch hopefully in the future, has no place in the game really.

  • Glad it sounds like you’ve found a way to squash this bug without heavily impacting any other momentum techs like b-hops or sword dashes.

  • Thanks for sharing this update! As always it's really appreciated to be given a look behind the curtain to give insight on what's been going on in terms of specific issues that have been well-discussed by the community for a while.

    Glad to hear that there's a good chance that this is being dealt with and there's a fix for addressing this issue - fingers crossed it all goes to plan.

  • @lucas5798798 said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    Never used this exploit so not much lost, btw, does anyone else experience low fps spikes for some reason ? Mostly in fight or when any banners appear

    I disabled my Nvidia shader cache, fixed this for me, suspect just clearing it would help.

    However this discussion is incredibly off-topic, but feel VERY empathetic to your problem.

  • Very happy to hear this is being brought in at last. Was it really November ‘23 when you spoke about this last? Gees time flies! :O

  • @veronik5682 said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    I normally never have issues with 'exploits' as long as it isn't really a massive breaking advantage.

    But ladder launching is the opposite, I never bothered to learn risk of getting banned/patched out.

    Travelling further than cannons while not making a sound, you might as well download cheats for the game that offers fly hacks at this point.
    Glad its going to get patch hopefully in the future, has no place in the game really.

    Agree the people do it on purpose and often, ban.

  • @lucas5798798 said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    Never used this exploit so not much lost, btw, does anyone else experience low fps spikes for some reason ? Mostly in fight or when any banners appear

    Yes.

    From what I've seen in my own tests, this seems to be related to any UI loading and may be a memory streaming issue or shader compilation stutter (which would explain why it happens in fights when you come across new assets that need to be loaded or shader compiled).

    It happens to a smaller degree when interacting with barrels or any inventory. If you have your FPS counter on, you can see this as a short lurch in frames just as the menu loads.

    Although it's very obvious stutter with UI elements (banners, as you mentioned) most people are not going to notice it with barrels and such because it's so short, and I only started looking into it when my video engine was crashing occasionally because of it.

    I've switched from D3D12 to D3D11 and it's a lot more stable, though still not perfect. (Updating GPU drivers had no impact.)

    I really hope the team look into these issues because it's things like this that really impact my enjoyment of the game. Kind of hard to have fun when you're constantly in fear of technical problems.


    Specs and Info: Steam version running on Windows 10 22H2, RTX 3070ti, Ryzen 7 7700X, 32GB DDR5, running at 1440p 120fps capped with VRR


    EDIT (27/03/25):

    Today's Release Notes (3.3.1) give me some hope that these issues are being addressed.

    Performance optimisations have been made to Storage Crates and Resource Barrels, addressing spikes in framerate when repeatedly interacting with their inventories over longer sessions.

  • @honestauntyelle said in Ladder Launching - Developer Update:

    However this discussion is incredibly off-topic, but feel VERY empathetic to your problem.

    It's not really off-topic when game performance is mentioned in the post:

    Most recently this team has been the one spearheading our recent Performance Bash, delivering Client and Server performance improvements across our recent updates, which we're already seeing improve the game experience for everyone.

  • Hopefully it's a 1 and done forever thing. I've never used it In a fight or to gain an advantage but it's super frustrating to be nowhere near anyone and hear that boarder sound. 🤣

  • Add a reliable way to catch runners then, this was the only way to catch runners in the pvp game

  • @sonicbob I have literally seen things get caught in the outside surface of the boat, even in a fall when 2 ships collided I found myself literally caught in the outside hull and I could see inside the ship. Another thing that bothered me was that players throw themselves under the waterline of the hull and this causes the boat to feel like it has gone to sand and therefore slow down.

  • Honestly really appreciate of the transparency I'm seeing from the developers on issues like this. There used to be some serious issues regarding transparency and I think that this is improving a lot over time. Also, I'm happy to see this change as I personally believe that ladder launching is pretty antithetical to the purpose and spirit of the game. Thanks for the update!

  • @sonicbob Can't have a Checksum for player velocity? Implementing that in unreal 4 is extremely simple and easy.

  • I’m curious as to why all the launch bugs are completely tied to framerate, with high framerate being able to pull off some wild launches, while low fps (Xbox pretty much) can’t get much of anything.

  • @sonicbob i know other factors are at 0lay but I wish we could ban the exploiters.
    Especially streamers making money off of spreading and sharing the exploits to others, often shamelessly so.

  • Awesome we love to see it, the more level the playing field the better, down with exploiters of all shapes and sizes, and what about those pirates on youtube who get thousands of views off exploit videos..smh

  • @taaaamas nice.

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